Upcoming Technical Conference

[Scuba_Steve]

Well, it's scary enough that I won't do it. (And I believe my buddies when they tell me just how nasty it is).

I tend to agree with you, just not as loudly

Enough people have told them that maybe they shouldn't be diving it, beyond that, it's their call.

Good luck.

There sure ain't nothing worth dying for down there. Or anywhere, for that matter.

Risk assessment: High risk + No value = Poor choice.

He's still a buddy anyways.

 

[pufferfish]

All I am saying is that any certified trim-mix diver that has dove in Hell's Hole will not use mix there. Remember now, there are only seven of us that dive there. 3 are certified trimix divers and I think it is safe to say that you wouold judge Ninja as a pretty conservative diver and he won't even use mix there. Until you let me take you on a dive there (which won't happen) you just cannot understand the currents and the consistently changing currents. The simple fact you accept when you dive there is that you could get blown up and down 60 or 80' without having any control of the situation. One person was blown up 60' in four seconds!!! See what your trimix manual recommends as an ascent rate. I'm sure the two numbers won't match! When you do actually hit the 185' depth, you're doing everything just to hang on...and when you let go, it's one hell of a ride!!!! Fastest rollercoaster I've ever been on.

This isn't about profiles and getting out of the water faster. This is about the rate at which you may have to ascend or descend or both over and over. Riding a whirl pool for a 1.5 km over a 13 minute period isn't any fun, especially when you're doing a shutdown, had a fin tore off, have no visual reference point except your computer and with your wing fully inflated are still going down spinning like a helicopter blade and you're watching you bubles go down not up at 159'. Yes this did happen to me and when it did finally let me go it tried to slingshot me to the surface! Get the picture now. Yes I did all my deco requiements and gas switches and no I did not die or get bent and no I wasn't narced , my bubles were going down. The printout from my Vytec was pretty impressive. LOL

Side note - the boils in the water down there are anywhere from 10 to 30+ feet across and the top of the boil is as much as 6 or 8" above the rest of the surface level. Anybody have any idea what kind of an up-current you need to create that size of a boil. Think about that before you answer back and say "Ya, it's deeper than 100', you should be on mix." The simple fact is 99% of the population won't understand this dive and never will, unless they dove it.There is only one Niagara Falls, Niagara Whirlpool and one Niagara Glen and all that water and force creates Hell's Hole! It is one of a kind, and like your English teacher told you back in elementary school, "There is always an exception to the rule!"

Cheers
Jody

Keeping in mind this is only my opinion and two cents worth, but personally I think the above post does warrant a response in line with what others have been saying.

I am not a technical diver but do know a few things about dive physiology and also have my personal philosophy on warranted 'hits' within the confines up a public health care system.

Gatorboy you state publicly that seven of you (three trimix certified and by which instructor?) routinely plan to dive below Niagara Falls where there are boils and whirlpools that can take a diver on air "up 60 feet in four seconds" or down to "185 feet" to produce the "fastest roller coaster" you've ever been on. You have your Vytec profiles to prove this.

I believe in another post you state you are about to embark on a trimix course in other words you are an 'experienced' diver and should understand some of the risks at hand with diving in conditions you describe above. Prior to starting that course though you might want to review arterial gas embolism for those rapid vertical ascents at 900 feet/min and the physiology behind nitrogen narcosis at depth. It does vary from individual to individual and even from day to day for the same person. Also have you considered in your group of seven Hell's Hole divers using the known published risk of .30 that two of you may have a PFO and be at risk on rapid ascent for a paradoxical emboli and neuro DCS.

Those are some of the risks you boys have knowingly turned your back on while doing this type of dive. My problem with this behaviour in the context of living in Ontario under a public health care system is that should there be a serious incident (accident is an incorrect term here as it assumes no foresight or expectation of injury) such as Type 2 DCI who ends up paying for treatment? Unfortunately in a public health care system it will be all of us, both divers and non divers. Unlike if a climber decides to go and break the rules of altitude climbing on Everest and gets injured he or his family will pay for the rescue attempt and the medical care if needed. In this situation if you get bent or worse and need a rescue by helicopter or ambulance followed by a week's worth of Table 6 chamber dives, and then six months of physiotherapy to get that limb functioning again guess who gets stuck with the bill? And if a permanent disability is the outcome then either society or your insurance carrier gets stuck with that financial liability which costs us all again.

Personally when I read this sort clearly high risk diving behaviour by divers and instructors who should know better, I say it is time to go the route of British Columbia where they now make climbers foot the bill for their rescues and often in these cases it truly is an 'accident'. In this diving scenario above though I'd say not only should the injured pay for the rescue transport to the nearest chamber, but for the entire treatment and rehabilitation required as well.

Maybe divers who knowingly embark on such dangerous dives might think twice about doing so if they considered they might get stuck with a $50,000 admission ticket for such a "roller coaster" ride.

 

[deepdiver5by5]

Hey Cedar Point is cheaper.

 

[d33ps1x]

Wasn't this thread about a diving conference.

 

[d33ps1x]

Bernie Chowdry of the Last Dive and Immersed

Chowdhury...but what's in a name.

See you guys there.

 

[DPVDiver]

Back on Track. So your coming all the way from TO d33ps1x.

 

[d33ps1x]

But of course! A good hockey lovin' Canadian boy wouldn't miss an excuse to visit our glorious nation's capital!

After all. The Sen's are going to win the cup right?

 

[Scuba_Steve]

D33, that post that you attribute to me was a COPY AND PASTE (of which I clarified it was) so please don't mistake the authors incorrect spelling with myself.

An English professor I ain't ( ) but I can spell a whole lot better than that. If I can't, I have the book to cheat from.


Capitol

Yup, I got that one too. My mom's a spelling wiz (was) so I learned at an early age. (But I am lax about it now). I also know Immersed is no more. But hey, I can read too.

Steve

 

[Scuba_Steve]

Well said Pufferfish. Now he's (Gator) my buddy, so I can't be so harsh. But I agree whole heartedly.

As to the Trimix Instructor that may or may not condone this sort of thing.........sure I know who he is, but I'll let Gator tell you that if he wishes, lest I be black-balled for being "controversial", yet again. I respect and thank him for the training I have received to this point. I have said as much personally to him (And I mean it), but I have since made my own personal descision to move on to something "different" (READ: NON JUDGEMENTAL).
Please accept that descision, as I know you will no doubt hear of this. It's honest, and from the heart, with no malice. How could I ever forget the dives with you on the Empress? I can still see you unwinding my fin from the entaglement? Sure you remember too. I've learned much.

Regards

Steve

P.S.

The above was more than just a post to this thread. It was a statement I can't make in person, but one that I know will get to the desired destination. Gator will make sure of it. It just came out, and I'll let it stand, as is. It just seemed like the right time to me.

 

[R_Deluca]

But of course! A good hockey lovin' Canadian boy wouldn't miss an excuse to visit our glorious nation's capitol!

After all. The Sen's are going to win the cup right?

I think you've been doing too much deep air!