Unsure of my next step for cave training...

[Blackfrogfeet]

Finish Cave 2 with GUE. I think you'll be disappointed finishing with other agencies. Alot of agencies don't even include stages in full cave (which is dumb). Start diving and then get very comfortable OC in caves. When ready, move to CCR if you wish. Depending on the unit you choose, you may be able to find a GUE instructor to train you on it (though not through GUE). I dive the fathom and one of the instructors on the unit is also a GUE fundies/cave (and I believe tech 1 and 2) instructor

Ok it looks like the majority of the people here are recommending to just stay on the GUE stream and do C2 for OC, so I think I'm going to do that if the training quality is really that much higher than other agencies. In still going to transition to CCR for my ocean dives because I've maxed out what I can do on OC in open water. I'm actually looking seriously at getting a Fathom. How do you like it?

 

[missionmtb]

I would switch to CCR ASAP and do full cave when you feel comfy on your rig. At the point in which you're doing CCR cave you're in rarefied air where the instructor matters more than the acronym on the card IMHO. Figure the unit you want considering cost, service, training etc. and go for it!

+1 for not wanting to do the GUE JJ config, but you can always reconfigure it with 3Ls so not the end of the world going this route.

It sounds like your local diving situation is such that you can progress quickly on your chosen unit and add cave when you're ready (100 hours?).

The best instructor I've had did GUE for a while, retained the bits they liked and taught to me as an individual, I thought this was ideal. I usually have to think a minute to remember which agency was which cert., but I always remember the instructor.

 

[Wibble]

Ok it looks like the majority of the people here are recommending to just stay on the GUE stream and do C2 for OC, so I think I'm going to do that if the training quality is really that much higher than other agencies. In still going to transition to CCR for my ocean dives because I've maxed out what I can do on OC in open water. I'm actually looking seriously at getting a Fathom. How do you like it?

Why would you choose the Fathom? Asking as it’s part of the selection process to weed out the non-starters and work on your reasons for choosing a particular unit.

With your GUE background, you could do a lot worse than choose a standard configuration JJ which are highly respected In the dive community.. Add a hose kit plus tins, you can easily convert it to a GUE configuration should you ever desire.

The GUE configuration JJ is strange to an outsider, but the GUE people like it and it’s a clean looking unit with its own backmounted shallow bailout.

 

[rjack321]

I would switch to CCR ASAP and do full cave when you feel comfy on your rig. At the point in which you're doing CCR cave you're in rarefied air where the instructor matters more than the acronym on the card IMHO. Figure the unit you want considering cost, service, training etc. and go for it!

Except there is less content in a CCR cave course than in GUE Cave2. And you are highly likely to dive in a mixed team someday, or with other CCR divers who are using different sized BOs and/or stages or safeties. You need to be adaptable and quickly & intuitively pick up on the strengths and weaknesses of the whole team.

Things which are included in GUE cave2 and completely missing from CCR cave:
recalculating gas limits on the fly
gas sharing blind exits
stages
survey

if you can (re)calculate gas limits on the fly in GUE cave 2 with dissimilar doubles and a stage, you can do all that CCR teaches (re)calculating bailouts and more. Not only is GUE cave2 going to have more consistent instructors, there is simply way more useful content to lay a foundation on for your cave diving career.

As an extreme example, I did some open circuit OW diving with a competent and skilled cave sidemount diver with hundreds of cave dives to their name. One day I showed up in doubles and they told me they "had no idea how they worked"... Not at all confidence inspiring.

So imagine the OP is on CCR and has an OC buddy who's diving doubles and 2 stages - and only having a vague idea of their gas plan because you have never actually planned a cave dive with even 1 bottom stage? Being a fully qualified OC cave diver really is eternally useful.

 

[rddvet]

. I'm actually looking seriously at getting a Fathom. How do you like it?

I love my fathom. It was my first unit I owned. I'm trained on one other unit but hated it and didn't buy one. I have nothing bad to say about the fathom. It's easy as hell to travel with, it dives exceptionally well, it breathes well, and imo it at least "feels" safer than other units I've tried. It can be flooded like a mother---er and still you can stay on the loop (not that I'm advocating it). My wife shut off her ADV and then did a rapid descent on a scooter. Not sure why she shut it off, but either way that caused the ADV diaphragm (like a reg diaphragm) to collapse and it got a big cut in it. It's not the unit's fault, it was hers. She got off the loop, but attempted to get back on several times. The WOB went to hell, but was still breathable. She never got a caustic, but decided to exit the cave on bailout so she wouldn't get one. When we got to the surface and diagnosed the problem, we then opened up the can. It had at least a half of a gallon of water in it. Possibly more. Not many other units can get that flooded and not give you a nasty caustic. Besides that the unit is dead simple, and can pretty much be repaired or modified by the user. She had an LED go out on her HUD. We simply sent it to Charlie and he replaced it quick and easy. I personally dive mine with sm bailout. My wife dives hers "GUE-style" or as a "boat rig" (whatever you want to call it) with onboard 50s, and the normal long hose configuration of doubles.

Why would you choose the Fathom? Asking as it’s part of the selection process to weed out the non-starters and work on your reasons for choosing a particular unit..

Lots of reasons, but for me I believe in the philosophies behind mechanical rebreathers over electronic ones. The JJ is also heavy as hell and not as good as the fathom for travel. Those are easy ones, I have other reasons I ended up not going with a JJ, but their just my personal preferences.

 

[PfcAJ]

Fathom is a good unit.

I’m not impressed with the JJ’s reliability. Seems like a lot of people have a lot of problems with it.

 

[helodriver87]

Fathom is a good unit.

I’m not impressed with the JJ’s reliability. Seems like a lot of people have a lot of problems with it.

One of the people you're referring to has managed to break or screw up most of the things they've owned. I'm going on over a year with the JJ without a single issue with the unit itself. I've never missed a dive or had to do anything beyond o ring swapping.

 

[helodriver87]

Lots of reasons, but for me I believe in the philosophies behind mechanical rebreathers over electronic ones. The JJ is also heavy as hell and not as good as the fathom for travel. Those are easy ones, I have other reasons I ended up not going with a JJ, but their just my personal preferences.

The one advantage of an eCCR (assuming normal functionality) is that it will not let the loop go hypoxic. You might be stuck to the ceiling with chipmunk cheeks, but that loop isn't going below setpoint when it's working as designed. PSCR and mCCR can't claim that. Whether that advantage is worth the tradeoffs in design philosophy is something we could probably argue about for weeks, but hypoxia scares the **** out of me and I like the parachute.

 

[rjack321]

The one advantage of an eCCR (assuming normal functionality) is that it will not let the loop go hypoxic. You might be stuck to the ceiling with chipmunk cheeks, but that loop isn't going below setpoint when it's working as designed. PSCR and mCCR can't claim that. Whether that advantage is worth the tradeoffs in design philosophy is something we could probably argue about for weeks, but hypoxia scares the **** out of me and I like the parachute.

By the same token its a lot harder to have 2 bad cells outvoting one good cell on a mCCR.

Hypoxia scares the crap out of me too and as a general rule I find my eCCR easier to dive.

 

[PfcAJ]

One of the people you're referring to has managed to break or screw up most of the things they've owned. I'm going on over a year with the JJ without a single issue with the unit itself. I've never missed a dive or had to do anything beyond o ring swapping.

Just take a gander at the GUE jj ccr FB group.

“My thing’s broke pls halp” is pretty frequent.