Unqualified Divers in Caves--especially ones like Eagles Nest

[CuzzA]

Where does this put a site like Blue Grotto? IIR, at the back of the "cavern" there is no visible light, yet basic, aow, etc. are taught there every day by many instructors.

 

[Daedalus]

Where does this put a site like Blue Grotto? IIR, at the back of the "cavern" there is no visible light, yet basic, aow, etc. are taught there every day by many instructors.

Blue Grotto is privately owned and the owners can make up whatever rules and allow whatever they want. It's a for profit operation and its not at risk of being closed. Totally different from Eagle's Nest.

 

[Doby45]

Same with Devil's Den and Ginnie Springs, which also come up every time.

 

[boulderjohn]

Blue Grotto is privately owned and the owners can make up whatever rules and allow whatever they want. It's a for profit operation and its not at risk of being closed. Totally different from Eagle's Nest.

They can say whatever they want, sure. Let's say you come to my house for dinner and I put a ham on the table and tell you it is a turkey. well, I have a right to say it is a turkey, but it is still a ham. If I am teaching a class, I assume I will need to use the standards of my agency, not the definitions of the owner.

 

[The Chairman]

at the back of the "cavern" there is no visible light,

There is during the day. I've dove it sans lights playing golem on my SF2 rebreather. Same for the Ball Room at Ginnie. It's a lot of fun to sneak around and hide from the bubblers.

Same with Devil's Den

I have issues with Devil's Den. I've actually found myself on the wrong side of the fence and had to retrace my steps.

 

[Daedalus]

They can say whatever they want, sure. Let's say you come to my house for dinner and I put a ham on the table and tell you it is a turkey. well, I have a right to say it is a turkey, but it is still a ham. If I am teaching a class, I assume I will need to use the standards of my agency, not the definitions of the owner.

I'm not saying it's right that Blue Grotto, Ginnie Springs, Paradise Springs, and Devil's Den allow and even encourage overhead diving by untrained divers. If I had my druthers the "safe cavern" nonsense would be history. It's just a hook to get people into overhead diving and/or provide a convenient sheltered training spot for open water classes.

I'm saying that if John Q. Public called to complain about a fatality in the privately owned sites the owners would in all likelihood tell them to pound sand and nothing would change. That's not the dynamic at Eagle's Nest when FWC gets negative press and calls to shut down the site.

 

[CuzzA]

There is during the day. I've dove it sans lights playing golem on my rebreather. Same for the Ball Room at Ginnie. It's a lot of fun to hide from the bubblers.

I suppose being on a rebreather certainly changes the experience. I remember it being pretty much pitch black, but then again I was blowing bubbles and didn't turn off my light. Silt could have played a role too as there's always a lot of traffic there.

 

[The Chairman]

I suppose being on a rebreather certainly changes the experience.

Turning off your light changes the experience. I often do night dives with my lights off most of the time as well. Learn to see the cavern like a troglodyte! It will slow you down and improve your situational awareness.

 

[cerich]

Normalisation of deviation, anyone?

I have issues with Devil's Den. I've actually found myself on the wrong side of the fence and had to retrace my steps.

I disagree personally with BG as an appropriate OW training location. I would not teach there. beyond even in good conditions being an overhead,when there are the zillion students in there on busy weekends it's a overhead with bad visibility. I have been there listening to new divers talk about running into the walls and ceiling not knowing it was there the vis was so bad.

 

[The Chairman]

I would not teach there.

I've taught AOW there... it was a good place to draw the line between OH and OW and see how they respected it. We were there on a weekday, so the vis was fine.