Unqualified Divers in Caves--especially ones like Eagles Nest

[CuzzA]

signs aren't going to work when you can drive up to the site and dump a whole boatload of students in the water with no one watching.
the sign already says you can't dive there unless cave trained and ez scuba (among others) is teaching classes there. wasn't that guy from that terrible show on the discovery channel about wreck diving doing the same thing?

The sign is only part of the deal. You need agency wide standards for this site. Teeth.

Clearly there's a gray area on cave or cavern at the entrance. And while I agree it's a cave, there's still enough room for someone to argue cavern. Remove the argument. Make it clear to all instructors.

 

[Neilwood]

The sign is only part of the deal. You need agency wide standards for this site. Teeth.

Clearly there's a gray area on cave or cavern at the entrance. And while I agree it's a cave, there's still enough room for someone to argue cavern. Remove the argument. Make it clear to all instructors.

Another thing that would potentially swing it is to define it in such a way that if there is any dubiety as to what a section is to be termed as then it is always to be the higher rated.

Standards are only as good as the agency enforcing them - you need a very robust QA system for self policing to work.

 

[cerich]

EN is a state owned site? Even better, because the state certainly has the resources to put guards at state parks when necessary.

I have often (but perhaps not always) seen "guards" by the stairs leading down to the caves at Ginnie. They search non cave divers (identified by bracelet color) for lights. I've been searched. Usually it's one of the kids who works in the shop. A few years ago during a scubaboard event some agency guy was there doing it. Don't remember if it was NSSCDS or NACD or what.

Perhaps it depends on how busy things are on a particular day.

asking the state to post guards is asking the state to just close it

 

[Neilwood]

asking the state to post guards is asking the state to just close it

Unless a landowner stands to make something from it (or is protecting themselves from liability) ,then I would agree that if they are forced to foot costs for it their easiest option is to simply close sites like that. I certainly would be adopting that attitude if I were a landowner in a similar position.

The facts are that people are dying despite the current rules so a landowner (be it state or otherwise) might well ask themselves a few questions:
1) Am I open to liability due to allowing access on my land? Quite possibly.
2) Am I doing enough to make it safe? Possibly not.
3) Would restricting access to trained divers improve the situation? Probably.
4) How do I restrict access to those divers at minimal or no expense to the tax payer (public money doesn't grow on trees - at least it doesn't here)? Post guards and charge for access or negotiate a deal with the local shop to minimise outlay (" You pay us $xxx per year and we keep the dive site open, don't pay it and one of your income sources dries up").
5) If I can't charge how do I restrict it? Permanently close the site.

 

[Marie13]

And how do you permanently close a site such as EN in such a way that determined divers can't find a way in? A grate such as at the far end of the Ballroom at Ginnie?

 

[Daedalus]

And how do you permanently close a site such as EN in such a way that determined divers can't find a way in? A grate such as at the far end of the Ballroom at Ginnie?

Same way as any other closed site. Have FWC officers or deputies do the rounds and if anyone is caught using scuba arrest/cite them. It's easy. People would still sneak dive it but the traffic would go down 99%. And it satisfies the locals who are asking them to do this.

By the way, don't doubt that if Eagles Nest gets shut down Buford is going to be gone as a package deal. We will lose two world class dive sites.

 

[Neilwood]

And how do you permanently close a site such as EN in such a way that determined divers can't find a way in? A grate such as at the far end of the Ballroom at Ginnie?

Simple - fence around it and as @Daedalus says arrest/cite them.

Something like this would probably do the trick -

 

[Yancey M]

More then likely they would just put a gate and no trespassing sign up on the road headed to it like other places in the state. Then anyone caught would be trespassed which is a first degree misdemeanor in most cases but could be a third degree felony depending on if you have a firearm or they classify it(EN) some weird way.

 

[Bob DBF]

And how do you permanently close a site such as EN in such a way that determined divers can't find a way in? A grate such as at the far end of the Ballroom at Ginnie?

Perimeter fence, razor-wire and electronic surveillance. A volunteer at the gatehouse to photograph everyone going in and their certification, collect a use fee, and check them out. Perhaps a $10,000 fine for violations, this would help offset the police response for intruders and infrastructure costs. Of course it would be closed unless enough people were interested in being gatekeepers.


Bob

 

[karstdvr]

EN is a state owned site? Even better, because the state certainly has the resources to put guards at state parks when necessary.

.

It is not a park, and the state really doesn't have the resources to oversee scuba diving there. They closed it once before, and if they can't stop the problem of accidents there, it doesn't take someone from MENSA to tell you what is likely to happen