Shaka Doug posted a followup on this today http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ha...e-bad-news-water-sports-instructors-maui.html
Aloha, Tim
Unfair Maui Rules May End Scuba Instruction! We Need Your Help
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Shaka Doug posted a followup on this today http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ha...e-bad-news-water-sports-instructors-maui.html
Aloha, Tim
Shaka Doug
Contributor
Bringing up an old thread here....
Has anyone heard of any new proposals for the renewal of permits this year?? Our permit year ends June 30, 2009. I've had no new information from the Maui Parks and Recreation Department since they decided to go back to the old rules in October last year. It's not that far away and we are clearly suffering from a decrease in tourism on our island. Any new restrictions from Parks could really be devastating.
Bobby Baker is still workinig on ways to keep access open to Makena Landing but it is costing him a lot of money (from his own pocket mostly). If anyone wants to help, he'd be happy to talk with you about ideas and contributions. Reach him through his website: Bobby Bakers Maui Sun Divers
We cannot afford to lose access to Makena Landing. One of Maui's easiest, safest and enjoyable shore dive locations.
Has anyone heard of any new proposals for the renewal of permits this year?? Our permit year ends June 30, 2009. I've had no new information from the Maui Parks and Recreation Department since they decided to go back to the old rules in October last year. It's not that far away and we are clearly suffering from a decrease in tourism on our island. Any new restrictions from Parks could really be devastating.
Bobby Baker is still workinig on ways to keep access open to Makena Landing but it is costing him a lot of money (from his own pocket mostly). If anyone wants to help, he'd be happy to talk with you about ideas and contributions. Reach him through his website: Bobby Bakers Maui Sun Divers
We cannot afford to lose access to Makena Landing. One of Maui's easiest, safest and enjoyable shore dive locations.
When I spoke to the Parks & Rec department in mid-January, they were trying to get a new set of draft rules out there for public consideration.
I haven't heard a whisper since then.
The vibe I got from them then was that they are still trying to crack down on it... though I imagine if it can be stalled long enough to make it through Tavares' administration, the industry might not get slaughtered.
I haven't heard a whisper since then.
The vibe I got from them then was that they are still trying to crack down on it... though I imagine if it can be stalled long enough to make it through Tavares' administration, the industry might not get slaughtered.
Black_3000psi
Guest
this should be very interesting to watch unfold. now that something actual affects the "dive community" it will be intresting to see if anyone will actually put up a fight about this. I can tell this right now if you let the issue stay in the state jurisdiction chances are your going to lose. I could tell you how to fight it but onbody would listen anyway so all i can say is.... good luck with that.
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Shaka Doug
Contributor
They're at it again. Here's a link to the proposed new rules.
http://www.co.maui.hi.us/documents/Parks%20and%20Recreation/CORA/CORA%20-%20Rules%20(Distribution).PDF
If they pass this new ordinance we will have a lot of problems with what is included in it. Issues that bother me include:
Parking Stalls (where will they be? How many will we get? Will ther be enough to handle the permitted operators? when will they install them? At what cost to county?) Designated parking stalls is a bad idea for CORA operators. I have a permit for Palauea Beach Park. There are NO PARKING STALLS at that beach. We park on the road. How does this affect that beach? There are no boundaries marked at that beach either nor are there any improvements (bathrooms, porta potties, showers, trash pickup, nothing!).
Hours of Operation They have us restricted to certain parks at certain times, thus creating even more overcrowding than would normally happen. They have us restricted to no afternoon tours, especially Saturdays! No Sundays at most locations and no holidays at most locations. These are days and times when local people can dive! Now they won't have access to professional instruction and guidance during those times! Yikes!!
Holidays same as above.
Environmental Protection and Cultural Awareness Program requirement (There is no such program in place that I am aware of. When will this be available? At what cost? How long does it remain in effect for? Will it be convenient to acquire? Who else will need this?)
Non-Transferability of Permits (our business is worthless for sale if you can't get a permit to continue to operate it should someone want to buy it.)
Special Events and Prohibited Times. Will they grant us an alternate location during said times or ar ewe just expected to take the day off and lose a days pay? This could seriously interfere with our ability to dive a safe location.
Fees are listed as Non-Refundable. This needs clarification. What if I submit my fee for $500 for a park and get declined a permit for that park. Do they keep my $500? This is written that way.
Report to Department is an extra bookkeeping step I don't care for.
The separation or SCUBA and Snorkeling into two categories is troubling. SCUBA should include snorkeling in my opinion.
SCUBA Instructor Requirements:
Identification: They will require us to show our company name and that we are instructors on our BC or Tanks. OK, so how big? And where? BC or Tank or both? Isn't this advertising our business when they don't want us advertising in the parks to begin with? Are they doing this to cover the lack of lifeguards at the beaches? Also, this would make it mandatory for DM's to identify themselves as Instructors (see the way they word this). Our communicatiiin apparatus for emergency will be in our vehicle which will be in a designated parking stall. Will that be easily accessible? Back to the parking stall requirements....no good. We also will have to complete their EP&CA program. OK so what does that mean?
Suspension and Revocation of the permit is too easily accomplished by the Director of Parks. Too harsh. It can happen if we vioalte ANY rule related to CORA. "Hey Doug, it's 2:05, you're over the time limit...." You can lose your permit for this!!?? "Hey, you parked in a non authorized parking stall while you were waiting for a stall to become available..." Lose your permit! "Hey, no dive flag..." Lose your permit! "There's no label on your tank.." Lose your permit!! Too loose for my comfort!
There's a public hearing scheduled for June 26, 2009 at 9:00 am in the Planning Department Conference Room. Here's a link to the Public Notice: http://www.mauicounty.gov/archives/191/Notice%20of%20Public%20Hearing%20for%20CORA.pdf
This meeting is only 4 days before the current permits expire so we expect they are attempting to FAST TRACK this into the hands of the Mayor for her signature. We cant let this happen!
Please attend and voice your opinions. If these new rules go into effect it will be very difficult for me to stay in business. New Dive Instructors can pretty much forget about being allowed access to teach people to dive off our county beaches. Local people who work and go to school here will have a very hard tim scheduling dive classes to fit their schedules and will thus fins it difficult to learn to dive (or surf, or kiteboard, or windsurf, or kayak, or snorkel!). Our already limited beach parks will become even more overcrowded and congested. This will create animosity towards our industry. It will hurt the small businessman and the visitor industry too. Aren't we already in enough trouble? Why is implememnting all these ridiculous rules a good idea? We could really use some support. SB is a large group of like minded folks who love SCUBA. Please find a way to help the CORA operators on Maui to survive. You can call, write or email our Mayor, County Council Members and Maui Parks Department and let them know your position.
"Charmaine Mayor Tavares" <charmaine.tavares@mauicounty.us>
"Maui County Parks Department" <parks.dept@mauicounty.gov>;
"Jo Anne Johnson" <jo_anne.johnson@co.maui.hi.us>;
http://www.co.maui.hi.us/documents/Parks%20and%20Recreation/CORA/CORA%20-%20Rules%20(Distribution).PDF
If they pass this new ordinance we will have a lot of problems with what is included in it. Issues that bother me include:
Parking Stalls (where will they be? How many will we get? Will ther be enough to handle the permitted operators? when will they install them? At what cost to county?) Designated parking stalls is a bad idea for CORA operators. I have a permit for Palauea Beach Park. There are NO PARKING STALLS at that beach. We park on the road. How does this affect that beach? There are no boundaries marked at that beach either nor are there any improvements (bathrooms, porta potties, showers, trash pickup, nothing!).
Hours of Operation They have us restricted to certain parks at certain times, thus creating even more overcrowding than would normally happen. They have us restricted to no afternoon tours, especially Saturdays! No Sundays at most locations and no holidays at most locations. These are days and times when local people can dive! Now they won't have access to professional instruction and guidance during those times! Yikes!!
Holidays same as above.
Environmental Protection and Cultural Awareness Program requirement (There is no such program in place that I am aware of. When will this be available? At what cost? How long does it remain in effect for? Will it be convenient to acquire? Who else will need this?)
Non-Transferability of Permits (our business is worthless for sale if you can't get a permit to continue to operate it should someone want to buy it.)
Special Events and Prohibited Times. Will they grant us an alternate location during said times or ar ewe just expected to take the day off and lose a days pay? This could seriously interfere with our ability to dive a safe location.
Fees are listed as Non-Refundable. This needs clarification. What if I submit my fee for $500 for a park and get declined a permit for that park. Do they keep my $500? This is written that way.
Report to Department is an extra bookkeeping step I don't care for.
The separation or SCUBA and Snorkeling into two categories is troubling. SCUBA should include snorkeling in my opinion.
SCUBA Instructor Requirements:
Identification: They will require us to show our company name and that we are instructors on our BC or Tanks. OK, so how big? And where? BC or Tank or both? Isn't this advertising our business when they don't want us advertising in the parks to begin with? Are they doing this to cover the lack of lifeguards at the beaches? Also, this would make it mandatory for DM's to identify themselves as Instructors (see the way they word this). Our communicatiiin apparatus for emergency will be in our vehicle which will be in a designated parking stall. Will that be easily accessible? Back to the parking stall requirements....no good. We also will have to complete their EP&CA program. OK so what does that mean?
Suspension and Revocation of the permit is too easily accomplished by the Director of Parks. Too harsh. It can happen if we vioalte ANY rule related to CORA. "Hey Doug, it's 2:05, you're over the time limit...." You can lose your permit for this!!?? "Hey, you parked in a non authorized parking stall while you were waiting for a stall to become available..." Lose your permit! "Hey, no dive flag..." Lose your permit! "There's no label on your tank.." Lose your permit!! Too loose for my comfort!
There's a public hearing scheduled for June 26, 2009 at 9:00 am in the Planning Department Conference Room. Here's a link to the Public Notice: http://www.mauicounty.gov/archives/191/Notice%20of%20Public%20Hearing%20for%20CORA.pdf
This meeting is only 4 days before the current permits expire so we expect they are attempting to FAST TRACK this into the hands of the Mayor for her signature. We cant let this happen!
Please attend and voice your opinions. If these new rules go into effect it will be very difficult for me to stay in business. New Dive Instructors can pretty much forget about being allowed access to teach people to dive off our county beaches. Local people who work and go to school here will have a very hard tim scheduling dive classes to fit their schedules and will thus fins it difficult to learn to dive (or surf, or kiteboard, or windsurf, or kayak, or snorkel!). Our already limited beach parks will become even more overcrowded and congested. This will create animosity towards our industry. It will hurt the small businessman and the visitor industry too. Aren't we already in enough trouble? Why is implememnting all these ridiculous rules a good idea? We could really use some support. SB is a large group of like minded folks who love SCUBA. Please find a way to help the CORA operators on Maui to survive. You can call, write or email our Mayor, County Council Members and Maui Parks Department and let them know your position.
"Charmaine Mayor Tavares" <charmaine.tavares@mauicounty.us>
"Maui County Parks Department" <parks.dept@mauicounty.gov>;
"Jo Anne Johnson" <jo_anne.johnson@co.maui.hi.us>;
Hi Doug,
Thanks for the heads up -- I'd attend, but I've given up on Maui County altogether when it comes to this. They can't even read their own current statute correctly and enforce it uniformly and effectively.
I do, however want to answer one of your questions about the "Environmental Protection and Cultural Awareness Program" issue. I agree that most scuba instructors don't need this -- we've received it (and preach it) through our training. However, there are several individuals I have dove with here that need more than such a program could accomplish (unless they include electro-shock therapy).
I don't know the specific intent of the county in this matter, however I do know that at least a couple locally developed programs exist -- one put on by Pacific Whale Foundation (see Coral reef course set for June 6, 7 - Mauinews.com | News, Sports, Jobs, Visitor's Information - The Maui News ) that costs a fair bit of money ($100 per segment, 7 segments) and I'm not convinced of their actual value; and one put on with influence of NOAA (granting a CORAL certification card) -- see Free Ocean Awareness Training to be held in May - Mauinews.com | News, Sports, Jobs, Visitor's Information - The Maui News and Ocean Awareness Training classes to run Oct. 6 to 23 - Mauinews.com | News, Sports, Jobs, Visitor's Information - The Maui News ) -- for free and with what looks to be a reputable cast.
As for identification -- I think it's a good plan... if only for enforcement. How else are the in-water cops supposed to tell which dive group it is standing on the coral?
The only downside: shops that rent gear and do instruction at the beach (e.g. Maui Dreams, Maui Dive Shop, Pacific Dive) will need to maintain two sets of tanks -- instruction tanks and rental tanks, with no overlap or crossover... so a big rental day? They might have full tanks sitting around labelled for instruction, but they can't rent them out.
Thanks for the heads up -- I'd attend, but I've given up on Maui County altogether when it comes to this. They can't even read their own current statute correctly and enforce it uniformly and effectively.
I do, however want to answer one of your questions about the "Environmental Protection and Cultural Awareness Program" issue. I agree that most scuba instructors don't need this -- we've received it (and preach it) through our training. However, there are several individuals I have dove with here that need more than such a program could accomplish (unless they include electro-shock therapy).
I don't know the specific intent of the county in this matter, however I do know that at least a couple locally developed programs exist -- one put on by Pacific Whale Foundation (see Coral reef course set for June 6, 7 - Mauinews.com | News, Sports, Jobs, Visitor's Information - The Maui News ) that costs a fair bit of money ($100 per segment, 7 segments) and I'm not convinced of their actual value; and one put on with influence of NOAA (granting a CORAL certification card) -- see Free Ocean Awareness Training to be held in May - Mauinews.com | News, Sports, Jobs, Visitor's Information - The Maui News and Ocean Awareness Training classes to run Oct. 6 to 23 - Mauinews.com | News, Sports, Jobs, Visitor's Information - The Maui News ) -- for free and with what looks to be a reputable cast.
As for identification -- I think it's a good plan... if only for enforcement. How else are the in-water cops supposed to tell which dive group it is standing on the coral?
The only downside: shops that rent gear and do instruction at the beach (e.g. Maui Dreams, Maui Dive Shop, Pacific Dive) will need to maintain two sets of tanks -- instruction tanks and rental tanks, with no overlap or crossover... so a big rental day? They might have full tanks sitting around labelled for instruction, but they can't rent them out.
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Shaka Doug
Contributor
Hey Kris,
The tank ID thing isn't so bad, what is messed up is that they don't have a preferred system that they want us to use. ID your tank? BC? Both? How? Sticker? Magic Marker? Patch? How big? Readable from 50 feet? 100 feet? 10 feet???
The environmental and cultural awareness is not a bad thing either. I agree people in our position should have some knowledge of what is right and wrong and also some idea of the history and significance of certain aspects of diving Maui. The problem is: Who presents the course? What does it cost? Who pays? What do you get after completing it? Do you have to renew every year? Is it government or privately administered? Who gets the contract? When will it be made available? Is there enough room in the classes to get us all in compliance in time for the rules to be in effect? Lots of questions are unanswered here. You mentioned a class at $100 a session lasting 7 sessions! That would be tough for a lot of us.
I think you're misinformed about the tanks. Only the instructor or DM has to have a tank with Instructor marked on it. How many DM's will be walking around with these INSTRUCTOR tanks on their backs?? They need to change the wording.
And to think, it only took them a year to come up with this draft!! It's not much different than the last draft they produced that got rejected.
The previous administration (Alan Arakawa's) did a lot of the leg work to get to where we are now. This new group is undermining all their hardwork and reinventing a wheel of sorts. Arakawa has announced to me his plans to run for Mayor again. He is behind us. When you contact our legislators, remind them that they already worked on this issue 3-4 years ago and they came up with a good solution that cost taxpayers a lot of money already.
Why did you get censored Kris? Did you say Reef Police or something??? I don't get it.
SEND MESSAGES TO OUR LEGISLATORS PEOPLE. This could happen on the other islands too.
Latest news from DLNR: Plans to make Molokini Crater off limits to Non-Certified Divers and Snorkelers!! How many companies will this put out of business???? I couldn't believe my ears but I heard it from a very reputable source who was attending a DLNR meeting last week where this was discussed. This is absurd!
The tank ID thing isn't so bad, what is messed up is that they don't have a preferred system that they want us to use. ID your tank? BC? Both? How? Sticker? Magic Marker? Patch? How big? Readable from 50 feet? 100 feet? 10 feet???
The environmental and cultural awareness is not a bad thing either. I agree people in our position should have some knowledge of what is right and wrong and also some idea of the history and significance of certain aspects of diving Maui. The problem is: Who presents the course? What does it cost? Who pays? What do you get after completing it? Do you have to renew every year? Is it government or privately administered? Who gets the contract? When will it be made available? Is there enough room in the classes to get us all in compliance in time for the rules to be in effect? Lots of questions are unanswered here. You mentioned a class at $100 a session lasting 7 sessions! That would be tough for a lot of us.
I think you're misinformed about the tanks. Only the instructor or DM has to have a tank with Instructor marked on it. How many DM's will be walking around with these INSTRUCTOR tanks on their backs?? They need to change the wording.
And to think, it only took them a year to come up with this draft!! It's not much different than the last draft they produced that got rejected.
The previous administration (Alan Arakawa's) did a lot of the leg work to get to where we are now. This new group is undermining all their hardwork and reinventing a wheel of sorts. Arakawa has announced to me his plans to run for Mayor again. He is behind us. When you contact our legislators, remind them that they already worked on this issue 3-4 years ago and they came up with a good solution that cost taxpayers a lot of money already.
Why did you get censored Kris? Did you say Reef Police or something??? I don't get it.
SEND MESSAGES TO OUR LEGISLATORS PEOPLE. This could happen on the other islands too.
Latest news from DLNR: Plans to make Molokini Crater off limits to Non-Certified Divers and Snorkelers!! How many companies will this put out of business???? I couldn't believe my ears but I heard it from a very reputable source who was attending a DLNR meeting last week where this was discussed. This is absurd!
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Ahh, I gotcha. Yeah, that is pretty ridiculous -- they say it needs to be done, but don't specify specifics. And undoubtedly, they'll cite you if they don't think you've done it right. We know how different each officer's interpretation can be, too!
I agree! Again, they say it needs to be done, but don't specify details, it's a little concerning. I mean, you and I can both present courses on Coral Reef Conservation! Maybe we could certify each other and that would solve it...
I'm imagining that a number of these things are directed not at the dive community but others... like the kayakers that drop their anchor directly onto the reef, or the surfers that march all over it.
I'm sorry, I just read what you posted, not the actual draft... I just understood it to mean everybody in the group had to have marked tanks.
Well, you know... hurry up and move backwards!
Yeah... when is Tavares' term up? I can't see her getting re-elected... she's managed to upset just about everybody's applecart, it seems!
Apparently the proper name for Hitler's secret police that starts with a "Ges" and ends with "tapo" is verboten on Scubaboard.
Actually, I would totally support a move to have no uncertified divers at Molokini (i.e. minimum PADI Scuba Diver or equivalent). As for snorkelers, I don't have a problem with them, but I think the DSD's at Molokini and Snuba operators are a major incident waiting to occur... and if it occurs, they'd probably shut the entire area to everybody, altogether.
Black_3000psi
Guest
sounds like you guys got your hands full over there. and now im thinking about taking a job over there? hmmmm
Has anyone asked PADI to help fight this? From my take on what I have read this could potentially lead to less dive classes and less divers and in the long run less of a cut for PADI. That might be enough to get PADI involved.
