vioch
Contributor
PerroneFord, what is the water temperature range in N. FL.?
Underwear Revisited - The Warmest
- Thread starter Rick Inman
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PerroneFord
Contributor
Inland freshwater, its 20-23C, on the Gulf of Mexico range is about 15-30C depending on time of year.
r2t
Contributor
What are you using for liners on the blue gloves? I use the removable yellow liners but still find my fingers cold at the end of a 50 to 60 min dive.
Also what are you using on your feet? I need to find something thin but high warmth.
OP
Last year I tried a thicker fleece glove liner. This year I have the thicker liner in one hand and the yellow liner in the other to test which one is warmer. So far they are the same - which I believe is because hand and feet warmth are a direct result of torso warmth.
I use the Weezel socks and have yet to find a warmer sock. But you've got to have room for the loft, which I do.
PerroneFord
Contributor
Camerone
Contributor
I've been buying Mountain Hardware thinsulate & fleece liner gloves at REI for the last few years...they tend to last a year or so before they wear out, and they're fairly inexpensive, as well as a lot higher quality than the Atlas liners.
I use them with the Atlas 660 smurf gloves here in the Puget Sound waters. They work reasonably well.
I just bought a pair of the insulated Atlas gloves to try them in conjunction with the REI gloves, because my hands have been getting a little cold as I push the two-hour runtime mark in the Sound.
I find that some surgical tubing (or just the thumb-loops from the undies, left around my thumb) to allow just a little bit of air exchange from the suit, through the wrist seals, to the gloves, makes a huge world of difference. It's not the insulation that keeps you warm, but the trapped air. Also, having a warm core (yea for Merino lined undies and Otter Bay hood) makes a huge difference, as you'll keep the blood flowing to the extremities.
For feet, I never had a problem with heavy wool socks, until I replaced my old drysuit (wellington-style boots) with a DUI (Turbosoles, of course...) They're considerably thinner on the feet than the rubber-and-neoprene wellingtons. So, I ended up going to Seattle Fabrics (Welcome To Seattle Fabrics. We offer marine fabrics and outdoor fabrics such as Neoprene, lycra, sunbrella and more!) and buying some fleece from the scrap bin, along with some Thinsulate, and sewing a pair of 400g thinsulate + 100g PolarFleece socks. Toasty once again. They're similar to the DUIs or the Diving Concepts, but they are much more form fitting (think "boot socks").
Diving Concepts, DUI, and DiveRite all make moderate to heavy weight drysuit socks, and all are in the $50-$60 a pair range, once you shop around. Buying the raw materials didn't really save me any money, given the time invested to do it right, but I got a better fit, and two pairs for the same cash outlay as one pair of the DUI or DC socks.
I've heard the eBay drysuit socks are okay, but I don't like the puffy-slipper look, and the unknown use of materials. Thinsulate is one of the best choices for the weight/loft/bulk as an insulator, so I'd rather stick with it than risk unknown knockoffs.
OP
I tried them Saturday and they didn't seem as warm as my Wheezel socks.
PerroneFord
Contributor
That doesn't surprise me in the least.
I bought the 4th Element socks, and I thought they were quite warm. They have one design flaw, in my opinion. Being built with two layers which slide very easily with respect to one another, they make it way too easy to kick out of one's boots. I had a couple of near incidents and finally did kick out of BOTH boots while trying to descend from a yo-yoing incident during ascent drills. I did a feet first ascent to the surface with no ability to control or stop it. I never wore the socks after that.
OP
Well, I dived the new Whites MK3 underwear tonight. Here's the good (which was very good) and the bad (which was very bad).
Water temp 43 degrees F. Dive time, 65 mins. Had on the same Under Armour thin base and a layer of micro fleece under the MK3. Used argon.
This is some thick, hearty underwear. The outer lining is so firm it feels like you could stand it up on it's own. The inner liner is fleece and the middle is what they call permaloft. There are nice stretch panels under the arms, at the waist and near the knees - right where you'd want them.
Here's the good: I was warm. And I mean, real warm. It was cold out, about 13 degrees F, with ice and snow on the ground. Standing around before the dive in those undies and my drysuit, and I was roasting. Even in the water, I was too hot for the first 10 mins in the water, and I was thinking I had too much on under the Whites.
After an hour I never felt even close to cold. It was amazing. My hands and feet did chill a bit after 50 mins, but nothing like before. And for the first time I really noticed how cold my head was - I think because the rest of me was so warm (the Otter Bay 12mm will fix that). I have never been as warm in 43 degree water as tonight in those undies.
And now the bad. The stuff is so thick and firm that even with the stretch panels I was constricted and my range of motion extremely limited. I could reach my valves, but it was a lot of work. Very uncomfortable. I'm going to try without the two base layers underneath and see if that helps. I have full movement without the drysuit on, but I'm so packed into the suit with those whites undies that it's very cumbersome feeling. I measured for this custom fit drysuit with thinner underwear, so maybe the thick Whites is just too much to pack into it.
Whatever, I'll sacrifice the range of motion for the warmth if I have to. But I don't think these undies will be comfortable above 50 degrees anyway.
I'm looking forward to trying the Wheezels next. So far I think that the nice comfortable 4th Element Xerotherm Arctic undies would be the perfect choice for water temps above 48 degrees. But as to the warmth factor, between the Whites MK3 and the Xerotherm, the MK3 wins hands down.
Water temp 43 degrees F. Dive time, 65 mins. Had on the same Under Armour thin base and a layer of micro fleece under the MK3. Used argon.
This is some thick, hearty underwear. The outer lining is so firm it feels like you could stand it up on it's own. The inner liner is fleece and the middle is what they call permaloft. There are nice stretch panels under the arms, at the waist and near the knees - right where you'd want them.
Here's the good: I was warm. And I mean, real warm. It was cold out, about 13 degrees F, with ice and snow on the ground. Standing around before the dive in those undies and my drysuit, and I was roasting. Even in the water, I was too hot for the first 10 mins in the water, and I was thinking I had too much on under the Whites.
After an hour I never felt even close to cold. It was amazing. My hands and feet did chill a bit after 50 mins, but nothing like before. And for the first time I really noticed how cold my head was - I think because the rest of me was so warm (the Otter Bay 12mm will fix that). I have never been as warm in 43 degree water as tonight in those undies.
And now the bad. The stuff is so thick and firm that even with the stretch panels I was constricted and my range of motion extremely limited. I could reach my valves, but it was a lot of work. Very uncomfortable. I'm going to try without the two base layers underneath and see if that helps. I have full movement without the drysuit on, but I'm so packed into the suit with those whites undies that it's very cumbersome feeling. I measured for this custom fit drysuit with thinner underwear, so maybe the thick Whites is just too much to pack into it.
Whatever, I'll sacrifice the range of motion for the warmth if I have to. But I don't think these undies will be comfortable above 50 degrees anyway.
I'm looking forward to trying the Wheezels next. So far I think that the nice comfortable 4th Element Xerotherm Arctic undies would be the perfect choice for water temps above 48 degrees. But as to the warmth factor, between the Whites MK3 and the Xerotherm, the MK3 wins hands down.
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