Understanding Mares lineup?

[Jay Young]

I own a Mares abyss 22. Works great, no issues.

I am trying to wrap my head around what their current lineup is. 52x, 82x, HR, XR, DR, and prices all over the place - but then, still, there is the
Navy 22, just like mine.

Can someone explain more in depth about the other options? I am a fan, but I also like to look at other brands. I am trying to figure out why many locals say I should keep the Abyss as a solid backup reg set, and get something else as primary? Why? Its the same price as the 82x, it does the same things. Its the same price as the MTX-R, or Poseidon Xtreme, or any other top tier reg set.

Other than "it says navy on it", what gives?

I personally don't think its too heavy, or breaths any harder than anything else. I have zero problems out of it, just trying to understand where the company is going at this point. Anyone have any thoughts?

 

[Nemrod]

I think the Abyss is the latest iteration of the time tested Vortex tube assisted downstream second stage dating back to the Voit MR12. It is not an air balanced valve. It is a solid, workhorse regulator much like the Conshelf in that it too is a simple, tested, downstream valve.

Most high performance and high end regulator second stages are air balanced such as the AL Legend/Core or SP G250, G260, S600, S620 and so on. The Poseidon Xtreme/Jetstream are different animals all together. They are pneumatic pilot or servo assisted second stages.

The simple and incomplete answer to a complicated question.

James

 

[rsingler]

@lowwall or @Zef can probably give you the best summary of their lineup.

Mares Regulator Service Manuals site

@Zef and I have been working on collecting Mares service manuals so we can make them available to anyone interested in these regulators. Zef made a spreadsheet of what info is found in what manual. Starting with the spreadsheet, I created the following mini-website: Mares Regulator Service...

scubaboard.com

From a design standpoint, if you are considering other brands, @Nemrod hit the nail on the head. Mares is one of the few remaining manufacturers with downstream second stages as their top of the line design. They utilize slightly higher IP (140psi) and the Vortex venturi flow generator to get smooth operation from a design that is inherently IP dependent. As IP drops, breathing effort increases significantly. As a result they have also designed the most balanced first stages around. My old MR12 has ZERO psi IP change from 300 to 3000 psi. The second stage depends upon it.

Downstream seconds are dirt simple in design, and therefore have few failure points compared with a more complex balanced poppet design. But they are slightly less intuitive to tune, with profound safety effects on performance if lever height is neglected. They have larger springs, thus degrading seat condition with a big "indent" faster than balanced (lighter spring) designs.

Mares various first stages had some HP seat sealing issues with some models, and could be a PITA to service. But since the Huish purchase (or slightly before) t They did a redesign of their poppets that is more in line with other designs and should perform better over the years to come. I do not know if that affected their IP stability, however.

 

[Zef]

Just back from a few weeks of work related travel and saw this.

Mares discontinued the MR22/Abyss a couple of model years ago, with the exception of the MR22/Abyss Navy. The main differences of the Navy version is the 2nd stage has internal parts that have a teflon coating that make them more resistant to icing up in cold water, and the 1st stage comes with an oil filled cold water kit pre-assembled as standard as opposed to an aftermarket add-on. The other significant difference is the Navy version 1st stage uses the tri-material high pressure poppet instead of their current generation ACT (advanced coating technology) poppet, this is due to the fact that the newer ACT poppet has not been tested/certified for use by the US Navy so this version still comes with the tri material poppet that also came on their "T" designated models (e.g., MR22T).

The MR52 1st stage did away with the 1/2 primary low pressure (DFC) port and instead both low pressure ports on the right hand side of the regulator are DFC 3/8 inch. Other than that change the only other difference is the outer body design offering a different aesthetic than the MR22.

The main feature of the 72X is has 8 low pressure ports...2 are found canted diagonally on each side and then there are 4 more located on the bottom the stage.

The XR 1st stages is Mare's foray into marketing to tech divers. Their current offering includes the 25XR and the 28XR:

The 25XR is designed as right hand and left hand model, usually sold as a pair. Each of the pair has only 1 HP port and 2 LP ports. The appeal to tech divers is that each 1st stage has a reduced number of potential failure points....at the expense of limiting their ability to be used for general recreation configurations. These regs are designed for diving a doubles setup, or with stage bottles where extra ports or not necessarily needed.

The 28XR follows the trend of other manufacturers who are offering a turret type 1st stage with 4 low pressure ports on the circumference of the turret and a 5th (or 5th port option) on the bottom (HOG D3, Deep 6 Signature, Apex DST, etc.)...this reg set is targeted primarily towards those who dive with a sidemount configuration but the design is also popular with those who dive doubles as it gives the diver different options for hose routing.

The now discontinued Abyss 2nd stage has evolved into the DR model 2nd stage, which is basically the Abyss with a different faceplate.

Traditionally Mares 2nd stages were not adjustable (meaning during the dive), the HR 2nd stage adds a flow adjuster on the left side of the 2nd stage body that allows the diver to tune the regulator during the dive...to me this is a "keeping up with the jones" type of thing and is debatable if it adds value. The venturi tube is also a slightly different shape from other 2nd stage models. This 2nd stage apparently can be opened and cleaned by the diver during a dive which is a feature target at appealing to tech divers. The body of this 2nd stage regulator is made from plastic.

The Mares CR 2nd stage is basically the same as the HR model but without the adjuster on the left hand side.

All of the Mares line up are solid performers and the main difference between the different models are external configuration and aesthetics. I have strong doubts that any of their lineup would give you any better performance above what you are currently getting from your MR22/Abyss combo.

Hope that helps.

-Z


Edit:
The MR22 Abyss incurred an aesthetic change for the 2008 model year when Mares machined the excess brass from the body of the 1st stage. Prior to that is was huge chunk of brass...in 2008 they modeled the MR22 body after the MR32 (discontinued a bunch of years ago) to make it lighter weight and slightly smaller...internally there is no difference between later models of the larger brass bodies pre-2008 and the 2008 and later models of the MR22.

The only real change over the years to the Abyss 2nd stage other than changing the faceplate design every so many years, was the addition of a port on the left side of the 2nd stage case to make adjusting the lever height easier.

 

[lowwall]

They aren't a Huish line. They have been part of the Head group (of tennis rackets and ski fame) since the '70s. Head added SSI to its scuba portfolio in 2014 and recently bought liveaboard.com, so they seem to be happy with the sector.

Back to the regs. Starting with the first. While they do offer a piston reg, it's mainly meant for shop rental fleets. The current one is called the 2S. Their balanced diaphragm regs started with the tubular MR12 in the '70s. It's no longer offered, but makes for a nice pony or stage reg as it's very compact.

The next reg they developed was the 22. This is also known as the Abyss since that was the second stage that originally came with it and Mares put the name Abyss on the first stage. All of Mares' diaphragm first stages since then are based on the 22 internally. None of them will perform any better than a standard 22, but some have more ports or come with factory cold water kits (which provides an environmental seal to the side of the primary diaphragm that is normally exposed to the water). The 82 even has a turret for the LP ports.

On to the second stages. As @rsingler mentioned, they are all downstream designs and use a separate tube to deliver air rather than have it flowing through the valve parts. This greatly reduces the likelihood of freeflow while the reg is in your mouth, so Mares has traditionally not bothered with extra levers or controls to reduce flow. Two notes here. It can still freeflow if you submerge it face first, but it's easily stopped. And Mares has occasionally added pre-dive levers or breathing "adjustments" on the seconds, but these are purely marketing gimmicks. Evidence of this is the second stages they offer in their XR (technical diving) line do not have the extra controls.

Also as ringler mentions, you need to get the lever height set correctly for best functioning. Fortunately, you can set the lever height independently of cracking pressure. All Mares seconds made after 2008 (and a few before) have a port opposite the lever nut to make this adjustment easier. You just need a 5.5mm nut driver.

Currently Mares offers only two families of second stages. The metal-bodied second dates back to the original Abyss and is used in the Abyss Navy and as the DR in the tech line. The plastic seconds are all built on the old Rover aka Prestige body with different faceplates. Except for the Loop (aka VR in the tech line) which is the same body except the hose enters from the bottom.

To sum it all up... If you have an Abyss setup you are happy with, especially the Abyss Navy which has the factory coldwater kit, there is no reason at all to "upgrade" it.

I should add a final note on the MR V and X prefixes or suffixes to the first stage name. These refer to various generations of the high pressure seat and poppet. But it doesn't matter which you have, these are all replaceable parts and should be upgraded to the current "x" specification (which uses the ACT poppet) at the next service. Except for the 42 which uses a smaller seat and will be stuck at the previous generation's Tri-Material poppet.

 

[buddhasummer]

I do like the look of the all metal XR DR second stage, has any one used one? Does anyone have a schematic they'd like to share with me? Thank you.

 

[Zef]

I do like the look of the all metal XR DR second stage, has any one used one? Does anyone have a schematic they'd like to share with me? Thank you.

My bet is that it is similar/identical to an Abyss 2nd stage.

I have been scouring the web for any new Mares diagrams, service bulletins, and service manual pages...my google-fu has either atrophied or Mares and those with access to their service info have things under tight security.

-Z

 

[buddhasummer]

My bet is that it is similar/identical to an Abyss 2nd stage.

I have been scouring the web for any new Mares diagrams, service bulletins, and service manual pages...my google-fu has either atrophied or Mares and those with access to their service info have things under tight security.

-Z

I'll take on the challenge and try to get a schematic. I give myself an 87.3% chance of success.

 

[buddhasummer]

My bet is that it is similar/identical to an Abyss 2nd stage.

I have been scouring the web for any new Mares diagrams, service bulletins, and service manual pages...my google-fu has either atrophied or Mares and those with access to their service info have things under tight security.

-Z

Do yo have an abyss schematic per chance?

 

[lowwall]

My bet is that it is similar/identical to an Abyss 2nd stage.

I have been scouring the web for any new Mares diagrams, service bulletins, and service manual pages...my google-fu has either atrophied or Mares and those with access to their service info have things under tight security.

-Z

Same here. Nobody is leaking anything anymore.

It's too bad if you are a Mares fan and like to service your own regs. They actually have a couple of new functional designs for the first time in decades with their new TBP coldwater kit and balanced adjustable second stages. They have even introduced a metal-bodied adjustable second.