Undercurrent--"Why Divers Die"

[Cacia]

unfit guy may outlive us all, but, it's not likely,

that is really the main idea, IMV. Sometimes I wonder about how much "working knowledge" makes it out of Stats 101.

I support every who wants to dive, to dive. I guess I like the articles like the one OP posted because I think it is positive when we re-align reality with our perceptions. (Many women perceive breast cancer as a top killer of women due to the media and PC-ness of women's issues and then women are in denial about the much larger CV disease and the threat it poses us , and so on)

The scuba community appears to be coming around, partly due to articles like this "getting the word out" about an often sticky subject. Often it is more accepted to discuss the need for buddy, pony, the correct bolt snap, than this health risk which has far more impact on us all.

I agree that BMI is a somewhat out-dated concept, because we have better indicators. Much of the ground breaking research related to obesity actually uses hip to waist ratios, which is pretty spot on. A large muscle bound guy who has a BMI that is high, will still have a waist in relation to his hips. The omentum fat is getting closer scrutiny as related to health risks...I think the emerging model is very exciting and will be a useful tool for weight management in the near future. (Apple shaped women are at higher risk than women with the same BMI as a woman with big hips).

 

[OHGoDive]

You are talking complete b0110cks, smoking related illnesses kill more people by far than obesity.

Get your facts right:no

CraigDiver

I think that you will find that that was the case in 2000, and even then only by a very small percentage. And, if the trends cited in that report from 1990 - 2000 have continued, smoking related illnesses are no longer the number one cause of death.

(Which is good with respect to smoking... bad with respect to fitness).

See the report from the JAMA that I included above.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Agreed. Anything that motivates a person to get more active is a plus in my book.

But, just be careful. Diving is a physical activity. It's risky for someone who is not physically fit to participate in a strenous activity without knowing their risks and limitations. Oops... I sound like the Undercurrent article

Actually, for the most part that's a bit misleading. Diving CAN BE a physical activity ... but under typical recreational conditions, and for a diver with reasonable competence, the most physical part of diving is getting into and out of the water. The actual diving part is really rather relaxing.

Now, for more aggressive diving (such as diving in currents) ... or for the poorly trained diver who has to constantly struggle with buoyancy control ... diving becomes more of a physical activity.

For the majority of divers ... people who dive off of a boat, in placid warm-water conditions using single rigs and AL80 tanks ... diving is not a particularly strenuous activity. Some level of physical fitness is required, but by no means does one have to be an athlete ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[CraigDiver]

I think that you will find that that was the case in 2000, and even then only by a very small percentage. And, if the trends cited in that report from 1990 - 2000 have continued, smoking related illnesses are no longer the number one cause of death.

(Which is good with respect to smoking... bad with respect to fitness).

See the report from the JAMA that I included above.

Here in the UK, it is a well known current fact that smoking related illnesses are the no.1 premature killer. As a result, Scotland has banned smoking in public places, England to follow this year - I do not see them banning pie shops.

CraigDiver

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I think that you will find that that was the case in 2000, and even then only by a very small percentage. And, if the trends cited in that report from 1990 - 2000 have continued, smoking related illnesses are no longer the number one cause of death.

(Which is good with respect to smoking... bad with respect to fitness).

See the report from the JAMA that I included above.

Also look at CDC and AHA data, which is more recent (2002 and 2004, I believe). Heart disease is listed as the number one cause of death. And while there is some causal relationship between overweight and heart disease, it is not an exclusive one. High cholesterol and age are also major factors.

One has to be careful when looking at statistical summaries to consider what they really mean, and what the implications of the summary really are ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Here in the UK, it is a well known current fact that smoking related illnesses are the no.1 premature killer. As a result, Scotland has banned smoking in public places, England to follow this year - I do not see them banning pie shops.

CraigDiver

My friend, the Brits put MEAT in their pies ... that should be banned just on general principle ... :11:

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Cacia]

I do not see them banning pie shops.

lol...oh really? Trans fats are outlawed in NYC eateries now. Candy is about to be not marketed to children (voluntarily) The politics of unhealthful food is changing, no matter which side you are on.

 

[OHGoDive]

Actually, for the most part that's a bit misleading. Diving CAN BE a physical activity ... but under typical recreational conditions, and for a diver with reasonable competence, the most physical part of diving is getting into and out of the water. The actual diving part is really rather relaxing.

Well, I'm not saying it's as physically demanding as say, bowling.

But, it's certainly more exertion than moving yourself through air. Or sitting on a couch watching TV. If it's the only physical activity someone participates in (and for some, it is) it's more exertion than they're used to. Even if it is low stress conditions. I'd recommend talking to your doctor if you're going from totally sedentary to any kind of diving. Even though it is quite relaxing.

Some level of physical fitness is required, but by no means does one have to be an athlete ...

Which is very fortunate for me!

 

[OHGoDive]

Here in the UK, it is a well known current fact that smoking related illnesses are the no.1 premature killer. As a result, Scotland has banned smoking in public places, England to follow this year - I do not see them banning pie shops.

CraigDiver

I should have stated that the report was on US deaths. Sorry.

Although, as Bob astutely implied above, obesity may somehow be related to the quality of a regions food...

 

[PalatkaBoy]

Originally posted by boulderjohn:
If you are doing a sample of the population at large, and you discover that 55% of the population has a BMI indicating obesity, you still do not know how many are obese and how many are simple "sports enthusiasts" who have developed muscle mass beyond the very wimpy level that is the BMI starting point.

Scuba divers are not the population as a whole. I think it is safe to say that the population of divers will have a much higher percentage of "sports enthusiasts" than the general population.

I am not saying that there is no harm in being obese. I am not saying that it is not beneficial to be fit. In fact, I work pretty hard to stay fit. If I were to have a dive accident, though, it would fall into the "overweight, nearly obese" category by BMI standards, and that is simply not accurate.

Exactly. Did the DAN study take into account how many people with a BMI greater than 30 may do something other than diving to account for such a high BMI? Other than eating, I mean. BMI is an INDICATOR, not a standard. If you tell me a person is obese, I know what to expect. If you tell me his BMI is greater than 30, I have no idea what to expect. My BMI is about 37. I do wear an XXXL wetsuit. According to the BMI measurements, that is obese.

But I have a physical every year, and never has my doctor ever told me to lose weight. And I have no evidence of CHD (and yes, I have had it checked with a nuclear heart stress test). So please don't assume people are obese from their BMI measurements. It is just wrong.

Man, I'll never find any dive buddies now....