Undercurrent--"Why Divers Die"

[MXGratefulDiver]

Let's say that obesity is one of the top five contributors to diver death, does that allow us to discuss this as a factor to be concerned about?

If that were the case, and if the discussion focused on the relevent factors contributing to those deaths, certainly. But having read the data this article referenced, I don't think the connection is as strong ... or as clear ... as you make it out to be.

In the Undercurrent article SSI is said to have divers over 40 undergo cardiac stress tests. Are they fascists?

Not at all ... but the correlation between cardiac fitness and obesity (as defined by a BMI of 30 or higher) isn't as strong as you make it out to be. By your definition, I'm obese ... yet I put 10-12 miles on a stationary bike daily, can easily run a couple of miles, and routinely do shore dives involving long surface swims in double 119's and deco bottles. I'd be willing to bet I could pass a cardiac stress test better than most average-weight Americans.

As I keep saying, talk about fitness and I'll have a reason to agree with you ... but the BMI definition of "obesity" is meaningless.

I think the only people you will find to disagree with this article are going to be fat people.

That is demonstrably not true ...

Obesity kills more people a year than anything else diver or not.

An interesting statement ... what data do you have to support it?

... Bob (Grateful Diver

 

[Tigerman]

Obesity kills more people a year than anything else diver or not.

And i always thought old age and related sickness killed the most people.. How wrong am I??

 

[Cacia]

The "related sickness" and "old age" are closely associated with obesity. You really cannot seperate them from the causal factors of disease.

I don't see these arguments downplaying obesity well represented in the medical or science communities.

 

[Charlie59]

I don't know how far off you are but in Texas "old age" is not an acceptable term for cause of death. Technically, age hasn't killed anyone.

Obesity also is not technically a cause of death either. However, obesity is a risk factor for dying younger than if not obese. Why; increased hypertension, diabetes, heart disease, sleep apnea and now it appears cancer.

Everyone thinks they are the acception to the rule and you may be. That does not give one Carte Blanche to tell everyone who is obese there is nothing to be concerned about. From the information presented would you say that obesity is more likely than not to be of concern. At 55% of deaths and only 1/3 of the general population with obesity, my thought would be that this is a consideration.


If someone can show me an article that says that obesity is good for overall health and for safer diving, I'd be glad to read it. I have presented information that suggests the opposite.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

And i always thought old age and related sickness killed the most people.. How wrong am I??

According to the Center for Disease Control and American Heart Association, the number one cause of death in America is heart disease.

Now, one can draw a causal relationship between weight and heart disease ... but how does that relate to diving?

Well, a closer look at a breakdown of those statistics will show that the number one cause of death varies with different age groups ...

For Americans under the age of 44, the leading cause of death is accidents
For Americans in the 45 to 64 age category, the leading cause of death is cancer
For Americans older than 65, the leading cause of death is heart disease

Draw your own conclusions ... that data can be interpreted to mean pretty much anything you want it to ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Everyone thinks they are the acception to the rule and you may be. That does not give one Carte Blanche to tell everyone who is obese there is nothing to be concerned about.

No one said that ...

From the information presented would you say that obesity is more likely than not to be of concern. At 55% of deaths and only 1/3 of the general population with obesity, my thought would be that this is a consideration.

A consideration? Certainly. But how does that relate to your assertion that an overweight dive buddy is a liability? Would you prefer a slim dive buddy with inadequate skills?

If someone can show me an article that says that obesity is good for overall health and for safer diving, I'd be glad to read it. I have presented information that suggests the opposite.

No one said that ... I AM disputing what you presented as "fact" that obesity is the number one cause of diver death. Poor training and poor judgment are the primary causes of diver death.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[OHGoDive]

And i always thought old age and related sickness killed the most people.. How wrong am I??

Well, you can read this and see for yourself:

http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/291/10/1238

I'm not sure I understand the thought process of "I'm overweight, but I'm still a better diver than you are". I don't think anyone has said that being overweight makes you a bad diver.

Being overweight puts you at a much higher risk for any number of conditions that will keep you from dying of "old age". It doesn't matter how "fit" you claim to be. It's not a casual inference. It, I feel pretty comfortable saying this, is a fact.

The article does a service if it makes people consider their own diet and exercise and physical health and how those factors "might" relate to their diving experience. It didn't say overweight divers were bad divers. It didn't say non-overweight divers were good (or properly trained) divers.

There are a lot of things that can kill you. Almost all of them are not diving-related.

But, to argue that being overweight doesn't play a part in at least some deaths while diving is like saying that drinking doesn't play a factor in auto accidents because I drink and drive and I'm a much better driver than you are.

 

[Charlie59]

That's not the only thing to see in the data. There are alot of people who die of heart attacks. What training helps that?

Obesity is a leading cause was the summary, not the leading cause in the article. The difference is semnatics and hair splitting.

 

[Cacia]

The reason the heart attack/ obesity connection affects diving deaths is because that risk does not wait until the diver gets out of the water.

The same people who are adamant about buddy diving "in case" ...also insist being at risk for a heart attack while underwater is not significant---this logic escapes me.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Well, you can read this and see for yourself:

http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/291/10/1238

... which claims that smoking is the number one cause of death in America (those statistics are 6 years old, however) ...

I'm not sure I understand the thought process of "I'm overweight, but I'm still a better diver than you are". I don't think anyone has said that being overweight makes you a bad diver.

Actually, according to the OP, the article asserts that being overweight makes you a liability as a dive buddy. That may or may not be the case ... whether you're overweight or not. The skills required to make someone a good dive buddy are not weight-dependent.

Being overweight puts you at a much higher risk for any number of conditions that will keep you from dying of "old age". It doesn't matter how "fit" you claim to be. It's not a casual inference. It, I feel pretty comfortable saying this, is a fact.

No argument with that statement ... but the title of this thread is "Why Divers Die". Being overweight is only one risk factor ... and if you were to take a serious look at the causes for diving accidents, it's not one of the leading causes for diver death.

The article does a service if it makes people consider their own diet and exercise and physical health and how those factors "might" relate to their diving experience.

It could do a service ... if presented properly.

It didn't say overweight divers were bad divers.

According to some of the quoted text in the OP ... that's EXACTLY what it said.

But, to argue that being overweight doesn't play a part in at least some deaths while diving is like saying that drinking doesn't play a factor in auto accidents because I drink and drive and I'm a much better driver than you are.

Not saying that ... if you look at the local diver deaths I listed earlier you'll notice that I did say that in one case weight was a direct factor.

What I am saying is that it is not the leading cause of death among divers. I don't believe the DAN statistics used for the article support that claim. I don't think it supports the claim that an overweight dive buddy is a liability either.

Look, I don't think there are too many people here ... fat people or otherwise ... who would say that being in better shape wouldn't help make you a better diver. It may or may not make you a safer diver ... but that depends on a lot of other factors that play a far more direct role in diver safety.

Writing an article titled "Why Divers Die" and making the inference that it's because they're overweight is just sensationist "journalism" to my concern ... it doesn't do much to address the real issue of diver safety. Fitness and health are two important factors ... but obesity is only one aspect of fitness and health that should be discussed in that respect. And not necessarily the most important.

What about smoking? What about exercise? Can you tell by looking at someone how healthy they really are? Or what shape their heart's in?

In effect, the article shot wide of the mark ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)