Undercurrent--"Why Divers Die"

[Cacia]

lol. OMG...yea/ People do want to cling to this notion of heavy people being in better shape. I never see all these "overweight but very fit" divers. The ones I see are out of breath by standing up. Really...that's who I see. But enough people are saying it, that I am thinking maybe in some regions it is prevalent.


I find myself posting in those threads, just because I like the general subject of fitness.

But..somehow now I am misunderstood. So, I think it is a bad subject topic politically, but interesting physiologically and psychologically.

And..another thing. Half of this board, it seems is dropping weight and getting in shape. I think it is great. They motivate me when I see those before and afters. It is really, really tough, and they are hunkered down...gives me goose bumps I am so happy for them. And not because they LOOK different, but because they took control. We can all relate to that, getting a grip on some problem, some reality.

 

[OHGoDive]

But..somehow now I am misunderstood. So, I think it is a bad subject, but interesting physiologically and psychologically.

The psychology of it is interesting. You see the same process in some smokers. I used to work for a guy who was convinced (and would try to convince others) that he was in better shape because he smoked. Since he stayed very fit running and skiing, he figured his body had to work even harder to stay so fit. Ergo, more fit.

I would always start to stay something and then figured, well, there is nothing that I could say to work around whatever was going on inside his head. He's probably coughed up a lung by now.

It is odd that while so many people consider themselves large and healthy, yet so many usually follow this up with, "sure, I could stand to lose some weight".

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I don't think anyone's arguing that overweight people would be healthier if they dropped some weight ... I think what we're saying is that the "statistics" tend to place an emphasis on weight, when they should be placing it on other things like fitness, training, and skill level.

And does it really serve anyone's interest to discourage overweight people from participating in diving? Isn't it a healthier thing for them to do than, say, watching TV?

I think it's important for people to know their limitations, and to recognize that if they want to do certain things they need to be physically up to the challenge. However, I think the emphasis on weight in this case is really more looking at a symptom than a cause ... and in the context of the discussion is rather misplaced.

Within the context of diver risk and safety, there are quite a number of variables that can be controlled by the individual diver. Fitness is one of those ... and while body weight is an indicator of overall fitness, I don't believe that a person's weight is, or should be, something that determines whether or not someone should be diving. One does not have to be an athlete to dive ... one should not be a couch potato either. Most people fall somewhere in between ... overweight and otherwise.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Cacia]

And does it really serve anyone's interest to discourage overweight people from participating in diving? Isn't it a healthier thing for them to do than, say, watching TV?

I agree. I have phat friends, skinny friends...I am glad they all dive.

This issue is bound to be discussed because our population has not always had this issue---it's a big societal change, and we are still figuring out the implications.

You see the same process in some smokers.

My dad smoked and ran marathons. (used to) Then...you have to hear the stories about the guy who drank and smoked and lived to 100. Is it right for friends to try and facilitate people out of denial about this problem? That is really the question. I understand both sides. It really isn't any of anybody else's business...and yet you do sort of feel like you should point it out, especially if you are a doctor or a nurse. But, it will not win any friends, that you can be sure of.

People diving solo are going to illicit a certain number of people remarking out of true concern that maybe you don't understand the risks. And...once in a while they make some good points.

If everybody says "It doesn't matter, it doesn't matter" and the docs hanging around here don't pipe in once in a while with a "uh...wrong" then ...is that good?

It's polite, but is it good?

 

[drbill]

Certainly obesity is a major issue in the population as a whole, and perhaps to a lesser extent in the diving community. It concerns me when I see certain shops and agencies allowing people to dive (Intro or certification class) who are quite obviously obese AND very out of shape. In fact some can barely swim. This is not good for the industry and the rest of the dive community who may be called upon to assist these folks.

Being out of shape is not limited to those who are obese. I've seen slender folks who could barely make a short surface swim back to our dive boat. I've had to assist divers whose physique made them appear to be in good shape, yet their conditioning turned out to be abyssmal.

I think it is fairly safe to say that those who are obese (high body fat levels) are more likely to be out of shape as well. However, it is also true that there are "big fellas" and gals who have large bodies (I'm of good German stock with what several of my lady friends have referred to as "thunder thighs") but much of their body mass is due to being large boned or very muscular.

Fitness is the ultimate criterion in my estimation. However, if I have to rescue an out-of-shape diver, I'd rather they were smaller bodied!

One of the best things I ever did for myself was to quit smoking 30+ years ago. Had I not done that, there is a good likelihood I wouldn't be diving today.

 

[Teamcasa]

lol. OMG...yea/ People do want to cling to this notion of heavy people being in better shape. I never see all these "overweight but very fit" divers. The ones I see are out of breath by standing up. Really...that's who I see. But enough people are saying it, that I am thinking maybe in some regions it is prevalent.


I find myself posting in those threads, just because I like the general subject of fitness.

But..somehow now I am misunderstood. So, I think it is a bad subject topic politically, but interesting physiologically and psychologically.

And..another thing. Half of this board, it seems is dropping weight and getting in shape. I think it is great. They motivate me when I see those before and afters. It is really, really tough, and they are hunkered down...gives me goose bumps I am so happy for them. And not because they LOOK different, but because they took control. We can all relate to that, getting a grip on some problem, some reality.

Catherine,
I enjoy reading your posts. I am that guy. The ex-smoker, overweight and working on my weight loss, I’m down 30 lbs. I have no misgivings or misconceptions of my fitness level, and while I don’t run marathons, I can lift you and your gear out of the water without breaking a sweat.

Here is my perspective on this and other threads that address fitness and diving. When you are overweight, most people assume you are lazy and can not control your eating habits. To some extent this is true however, I and many others are far from lazy and have control over my eating habits. Weight loss is just very difficult for me.

As for diving, I am a very strong swimmer, have good diving skills and 300+ dives under my gigantic weight belt. I used to get upset when a skinny guy would make some smart***** remark about fat divers but now I just giggle and hope I don’t have to pull his sorry bu** back to shore someday.

The bottom line is, at least we the heavy guys, are diving, we are doing something we love to do. Most of us don’t expect help from others but we are always ready and in some cases, the best choice to help others.

I will continue to dive, with my lovely bride, enjoy life and all of the wonders the undersea world presents.

Dave

 

[Cacia]

good...you are not that guy in denial, though.

I do know how hard it is. I just dropped ten pounds that I had to starve off and I do wonder if it is worth it sometimes. (I sometimes crash and burn).

I take my BP everyday, and I notice that when I go up just ten pounds, my BP follows up almost a point per pound...which definetly has my attention.

I am very impressed about age and weight. The older I get, the tougher it is.

I am not one of those people that doesn't want heavy people to dive. I am scared by the huffer/ puffers, I admit that....and sometimes I see Instructors that have a hard time walking, literally. You see a fat, smoking instructor with a few Discover Scuba tourists..and you find yourself hoping they don't die today.

perhaps to a lesser extent in the diving community.

I think it is higher, myself.

When I attended DEMA in Houston..I was blown away.
I certainly could be wrong...15 years in SoCal and Hawaii, I think the population is healthier than average. (whatever "healthier" means). Most people will tell you, if they are being honest..that when they go to Houston, LA, that zone...it's an eye opener. And it seemed they were all smoking too, and they were from all over the country. Piles of butts everywhere at the entrance.

No..my honest opinion is that the dive community is not a healthy group, in general.

Great people, I hang out with them a lot.

 

[mdb]

I am not one of those people that doesn't want heavy people to dive. I am scared by the huffer/ puffers, I admit that....and sometimes I see Instructors that have a hard time walking, literally. You see a fat, smoking instructor with a few Discover Scuba tourists..and you find yourself hoping they don't die today.

I think it is higher, myself. When I attended DEMA in Houston..I was blown away.
I certainly could be wrong...15 years in SoCal and Hawaii, I think the population is healthier than average. (whatever "healthier" means). Most people will tell you, if they are being honest..that when they go to Houston, LA, that zone...it's an eye opener.

Catherine: I agree. I have been in the SCUBA industry for over 30 years. I've watched it aged, get fat, etc. The DEMA shows, any regional show for that matter, will more than confirm the above.

I also agree that grossly overweight people can, and in many cases are, good divers. There is a diver who managed a dive store in Sacramento, He called himself "Fat Jack". He weighed well over 300 lbs. on a 6 foot minus frame. The best lobster diver I ever met. He waddled back and forth on his sales floor and on the dive boats. The water was one of the places where he was "free".

 

[lazyturtle]

While it doesn't often appear so, diving is a physically demanding activity. I'd say that obese divers being more at risk is true, based soley on the fact that obesity is often accompanied by other health issues, most noteably heart disease. In the years I've been working in the dive industry I've been blessed with no injuries and fatalities, partly due to my working at being safe and partly due to luck. In the locations I've lived and there was a diver fataility, it was mostly due to heart attack.
From the rescuers perspective I worry about obese divers being able to self-rescue and my ability to rescue them. I'm a strong swimmer and a practiced rescuer BUT a 400 lb guy outweighs me 2:1, add panic and a 20+ lb weight belt and we're looking at a serious rescue situation.
Another issue with the increasing size of divers is gear. I often see obese divers trying to use(or being rented) BCDs that do not fit correctly, which I think of as a serious safety issue. I also see many obese divers unable to correctly wear a weightbelt, due to thier physical shape (the belt just slides down) combined with the ammount of weight often required to sink an obese person (here in the tropics I've seen guys need 20-28 lbs!). These problems could be solved by either the dive shops buying XXXL BCDs or obese divers recongnizing that they may need size-appropriate gear and that they should check to ensure that it is available or purchase their own.

I have noticed that people on this board seem to have a lot of opinions on who should or should not be allowed to dive. As an instructor, as long as someone meets the medical requirements (which I personally belive should include a docs approval for EVERYBODY) and the course objectives (set by my agency), I have no valid reason not to certify. I see no inherint problem with obese divers diving as long as they are competent and in good enough shape for the diving they are going to be doing.
I'd also be interested in seeing some figgures that could compare the death rate (non-diving) of obese people compared to non-obese people, I'd suspect that it happens to be higher.

 

[drbill]

I have noticed that people on this board seem to have a lot of opinions on who should or should not be allowed to dive. As an instructor, as long as someone meets the medical requirements (which I personally belive should include a docs approval for EVERYBODY) and the course objectives (set by my agency), I have no valid reason not to certify. I see no inherint problem with obese divers diving as long as they are competent and in good enough shape for the diving they are going to be doing.

Shouldn't SCUBA certification by all agencies require at least a minimum of swimming skill, say the ability to swim 100 yards using any stroke? I see divers being certified who can't even manage that. Fortunately most can.