Undercurrent--"Why Divers Die"

[fisherdvm]

Although study strictly looking at BMI ignored age, smoking, social habit, exercise, etc.. It certainly can be the ground for further epidemiologic studies.

Certainly DAN can not do military style measurment to detemine muscle mass, and rely on very basic registration information..... Such a study still need to be published.

Large BMI is linked with :

1. Increasing age
2. Increased risk of hypertension
3. Increased risk of coronary artery disease
4. Increased risk of adult onset diabetes
5. Increased risk of osteoarthritis
6. Increased risk of inactivity, and lack of physical stamina...

There is no perfect study, unless it is case controlled, or twin controlled studies.... I think this study is helpful, if it gets my fat *** to the gym daily!!

 

[Cacia]

I have noticed that people on this board seem to have a lot of opinions on who should or should not be allowed to dive.

I agree, please don't count me as one.

For me, it is an observation, similiar to the one I made about myself not being aerobically fit enough to stave off CV disease, not personal, at all.

twin controlled studies

we were torturing a cardiologist in the bike forum with the "If Lance Armstrong had a fat twin, who sat on the couch and smoked... " (in regards to MHR) Divers are more fun than cyclists...they can be pretty anal.

Seriously though, DEMA was a wake-up call for the scuba community. The thing is we are at a higher risk for unhealthy lifestyle...I don't know why. I think we might be bigger drinkers too. So, the point is to be on alert for it. See, I don't see myself as a big drinker because I tend to hang out with some people that are BIGGER drinkers...that sort of thing will get you. Then you hear, from the medical research: only "one a day"...and you realize, "well, maybe I am a moderate
drinker. Diving, health, life..it is all about staying in reality.

Seeing my BP creep up with only ten pounds above my ideal was surprising to me.
I am sure there is data about this...I bet you make a big jump from ideal to ten pounds over and then flattens out a bit. In other words, I am guessing that ten pounds overweight has a bigger increased risk than the risk increase from ten to twenty pounds over. Guessing..wishing somebody had data? Bill, would you know how to pose that question for a search?

As far as BMI...I think it is very useful (as opposed to just weight) BUT...the new evidence is about waist hip ratios and omentum fat, or something, I think.

The fat you tend to store around your "waist" organs, your liver, stomach, etc.
The link with insulin resistance, cancer, is stronger, I think.

 

[lazyturtle]

Shouldn't SCUBA certification by all agencies require at least a minimum of swimming skill, say the ability to swim 100 yards using any stroke? I see divers being certified who can't even manage that. Fortunately most can.

Don't all agencies require this? I've never yet had a person fail a swim test. My swim test is a 100 yard swim (no fins/mask) or 300 yards (with fins/mask) followed by a 10 min float/tread water (and I mean immedatly followed, no break). If someone is certifying people who cannot swim that far they are a dangerous instructor.

I would also love to see something like the British Dive clubs here in the USA, but I don't see it happening. In the club system you get certified through the club and to keep your certification you must dive with a club member at a preset interval (like every couple of months or so). Every time I've taken a diver from one of these clubs they've been EXCELLENT in terms of dive skills. An interesting note was that the dives HAD to be done with a club member, failing to do so made you lose your certification.

 

[DawgDiver]

Don't all agencies require this? I've never yet had a person fail a swim test. My swim test is a 100 yard swim (no fins/mask) or 300 yards (with fins/mask) followed by a 10 min float/tread water (and I mean immedatly followed, no break). If someone is certifying people who cannot swim that far they are a dangerous instructor.

As far as I'm aware, all agencies require a swim test. I don't think there is any time limit on it, but I believe all agencies just require that you swim a certain distance, using the stroke of your choice.

 

[captain]

I don't think you can judge a persons physical condition on BMI. A NFL lineman with his gut lapping over his belt is probably in better physical condition than the the 150 pound guy with a BMI of 20 who sits at a desk all day and in front of a TV all night.
Granted a high BMI is an indicator of the potential to have health problems but not a predictor that a person will. By the same token just because someone is thin and active is not a predictor that they won't. I know from personal experience. I have always been thin with a BMI under 20, active in running, tennis, diving and other physical activities, non smoker, cholesterol under 200, normal BP yet I had to have triple coronary artery bypass at age 54. Fortunately because of my physical activities I caught it before I had a heart attack and breezed through the surgery. Because I didn't fit the mold of the typical cornary artery disease patient the underlying cause was never looked for or treated in routine physicals.

 

[GreenDiverDown]

As far as BMI...I think it is very useful (as opposed to just weight) BUT...the new evidence is about waist hip ratios and omentum fat, or something, I think.

Waist/height ratios... waist should be less than 1/2 height. For men that's about 35 inches... gals... 33 I believe.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Don't all agencies require this? I've never yet had a person fail a swim test. My swim test is a 100 yard swim (no fins/mask) or 300 yards (with fins/mask) followed by a 10 min float/tread water (and I mean immedatly followed, no break). If someone is certifying people who cannot swim that far they are a dangerous instructor.

The mask, snorkel and fin thing that PADI now allows is not swimming. There are people who can push themselves with fins while breathing on a snorkel that can't swim at all without equipment.

In the four years I ran a dive shop I had quit a few people sign up for classes who couldn't swim. I had some who couldn't sustain themselves at all in the water and I had several who couldn't make it the 100 yards.

 

[Cacia]

I don't think you can judge a persons physical condition on BMI. A NFL lineman with his gut lapping over his belt is probably in better physical condition than the the 150 pound guy with a BMI of 20 who sits at a desk all day and in front of a TV all night.

NFL linemen are not very healthy, are they? A lot of those guys are good because they can fall on other players and crush them.

Well, my sister married one and the ones I "see" get very heavy very fast as soon as they retire at a very young age. I also don't notice them breaking any longevity records.

 

[Thalassamania]

Shouldn't SCUBA certification by all agencies require at least a minimum of swimming skill, say the ability to swim 100 yards using any stroke? I see divers being certified who can't even manage that. Fortunately most can.

I require a 450 yds swimming in 14 mins, and 900 yds in freediving gear in 20 mins, and a 350 yd skill based circuit swim in 12 mins.

The Cap's right ... a high BMI is most likely bad, but a low BMI does not mean that everythings OK.

 

[captain]

NFL linemen are not very healthy, are they? A lot of those guys are good because they can fall on other players and crush them.

Well, my sister married one and the ones I "see" get very heavy very fast as soon as they retire at a very young age.

Health and physical conditioning are not necessarly one and the same. Lance Armstrong was not healthy when he had cancer but he could probably still out bicycle any of us. For diving we need physical conditioning, the ability to perform at a high level of arobic output as when you have to swim against a current for several minutes to get back to the boat.