Uncontrolled Ascent Don't let this hapen to you!

[KzooJason]

My LDS didn't even show me how to use the dump valves. Because of this, I went and bought a Mares Airtrim BC, because I didn't feel like I could relaibly get the Scubapro BC they rented me to release air. I had several times where I was fighting with the BC to control my buoyancy, and I knew there was air in the BC, but couldn't get it out.

I know what you mean. My OW instructor didn't mention dump valves or have us try to use them at all in class. It wasn't until the second day of our open water dives that somebody mentioned them. In retrospect this would have been a great thing to know going into the water.

Jason

 

[D_B]

Glad your OK
Sounds like you have learned from this and all the good suggestions

Extra weight can surprse you with how much difference it makes to control your buoyancy , just had 2 extra lbs. in case my friend needed it for the safety stop and it really messed with my buoyancy, very sensitive with only that much more weight

I had trouble locating my rear dump on my BC after not using it on any dives for a while (use the inflate/deflate hose , just roll to my right) ... I now use the rear and shoulder dumps on every dive to maintain a good memory of ther placement

And a note on camera use ... when you do start to use one , make absolutely sure of your buoyancy before sticking your face in the back of it ... very easy to start, and not notice, a runaway condition with the distraction

DB

 

[victor]

Cameras and buoyancy
Don’t take your camera on your first dive of a holiday, first dive with new equipment, or first dive after a long break. It is very tempting on that first morning of your vacation when you have assembled all the kit, etc. However get acclimatised first, get your weight right, comfortable with your kit, familiar with your surroundings, before you get your camera wet, just leave it on board and enjoy the dive.

 

[Tamas]

Silly question, but if you were near/at the line why not just grab it to stop the ascent?

 

[lostplanetairman]

I'm happy to hear your okay, you got a learning experience with no injury, which is school on the cheap. 2 things come to mind.
1. Contol the panic, panic kill divers, I do this by constantly praticing emergency senarios both in the water and mentally topside. OOA, scarfed some water, runaway inflator, tiny "O" ring fails releasing large amounts of gas, can I reach my isolator valve, I'm falling and I can't get up, etc. This helps when things break which they will. And what else are yer doing while watching the pretty fish swim by?
2. Know your equipment, floping in the ocean is not the time to find out that there are 3 ways to dump air from a BC. If you can (if you have a tank)set it up in the garage and play with it. Can I find everything by touch? Any time I change or add something I do this, plus its a great time to look for problems, and I don't care what the neighbors think. Also add only 1 piece of new gear at a time.


And Dive.....alot

Good Luck

 

[piikki]

Hello from a fellow corkl! I had this happening to me on OW. Not as drastically but maybe more consistently. I was one of the few women on the course, and I have a feeling that all the men in their beige rental wetsuits had one advantage over me because women’s wetsuits were still buoyantly black. So nearly every time I hit the 13-15 ft it was like hitting the speed elevator button with too big suit and empty AL80. I’d heard about losing the suit compression but not about the actual point the most drastic regaining happens - at the depths when buoyancy control is the hardest anyway.

One of my OW dives sounds pretty much like yours. I wonder if it’s PADI protocol not to teach about the dump valves?? We always dumped through hose button only (I’ve never pulled the hose in my life). We had to change jackets for check-outs and of course those buttons were different, and with gloves way harder to operate. Pretty much since getting own gear I have not dumped through the hose except the first burst when leaving surface. In horizontal position I find it easiest to jut and butt-dump. Highly recommended method and lessens the confusion. I truly hated one rental with like 5 options for dumping, in a hurry I never knew which one was ‘the best’ dump location, and kept changing my opinion (you know, results are not immediate), looking for strings and buttons and losing time.

When inexperienced and looking for the buttons/pulls, I sure relate – the first time in real trouble you easily miss the bits like flare out, fin back and fight while doing other things. I remember the amazement on my OW rapid ascent! The unfortunate thing is that you may also waste time trying to analyze too many things eg how much air I have in the BC/how come I have air/what mistake I made and when etc instead of just paying attention to trying to stop the ascent and exhaling. I bet next time you are way more aware of how powerful companion air is, and spend a bit more time figuring out your dumps/gear. That’s what happened to me. Glad to hear you made it and keep at it!

 

[tedtim]

The slight rise quickly turned into a faster rise, at which time I tried to dump air from my "inflation/deflation" hose.

The ascent, very quickly turned into an expanding air in the BC scenario and I was unable to dump air fast enough from the "inflator/deflator" hose. In the panic that followed, did I hit the wrong button? I truely have no idea. The BC exapanded so rapidly, it leads me to believe that I hit the inflate button, but am not sure. The expansion could have simply been the result of the air in the BC rapidly expanding as I ascended.

Lessons learned.

3) practice dumping air not just from inflator/ deflator hose, but from BOTH dump valves. In my case, I had never dumped air from them since the swimming pool session and couldn't find them quickly enough when I really needed them. Why do open water courses not require this to be practiced over and over?

When you talk about both dump valve do you mean one of them is the shoulder valve that is accessed by pulling down on your inflator hose? In a vertical position, this one is at the top and works the same as the rear dump valve.

I had a stuck inflator once, due to some sand I found out later. I pulled the inflator hose to dump with my left hand and had my right hand free to disconnect the low pressure hose from the BCD. That was a skill that we did maybe once on the OW course.

 

[Snowbear]

My takeaways from that evolution:
1) Suit for squeeze, BCD for inflation -- I know what PADI teaches, but if you accidentally put a bit too much air in your suit, then do the invert, no way to dump. The various rolls do work, but take reaction time and thought to execute.
2) As already said, learn your dump valves, use them. I did reach down for the back valve, but on the wrong side of my BCD. You can bet I've since learned where mine are, regularly use them all.

If you are using your suit and BC as stated and do inadvertantly put too much air in the suit so you get a bit positively buoyant, no big deal.... You have air in the BC, right? Dump a little of that to regain control of your buoyancy. Same deal if you're inverted... since you can't dump from the suit, and you're using the BC for buoyancy control anyway... use that. The suit generally dumps a lot slower, so deal with that after everything else is under control.

 

[RonFrank]

I generally do a slight dump, and go negative before I start to ascend.

This does a few things. First it makes sure that I can dump air, and that my air is not trapped in my BCD in a position where I'm not able to dump.

Second it makes sure I have my stuff together before I start the ascent. IOW, I am not hitting my inflate button, but rather my dump button.

Third it puts me a bit negative which means I have to fin to start the ascent. This helps keep the ascent slow. I generally have not had a line to ascend on, so ascending without a line makes it a bit more difficult to keep the ascent nice and slow.

I also put my computer in my face before I start to ascend, and begin to closely monitor my depth, and ascent rate.

Sailbahama, I'm betting your initial ascent was a LOT more than 5 feet. If you are not paying close attention to your depth when you begin to ascend, and don't dump air in the first 10 feet, you are going to quickly become a rocket assuming you have some air in the BCD which most will at 60 feet.

Something you did not touch on is how difficult it is to truely ascend slowly. It is REALLY easy to shoot up 20 feet in much less than 30ft per minute rate that is recommended even if dumping air, and attempting to go slow.

I have found it's best to maintain a bit negative buoyancy when ascending as it's easy to become quickly positive. I also stop every ten feet for maybe 5-10 seconds on deeper dives because if I blow my ascent rate for a given few feet (easy to do) then I still maintain a slow ascent with control points every 10 feet or so.

I learned some of this the hard way. I had a lovely dive at WPB, and from 60fsw was coming up. I did not realize that I had air trapped in the bottom right side of my BCD. I was ascending on more horz position. I ended up at 30fsw upside down finning down to maintain my depth, unable to dump air. I could have likely done the entire safety stop in that position, but I was fortunately to have a couple of heads up Dive Buddy's who saw my situation, dumped all their air, and grabbed me and helped me get vertical so I could get the air into place to dump it. After that experience, I have allways checked my air distribution in the BCD, and made sure I could dump BEFORE ascending.

Another point of interest was when I was diving the Grove with Brent from Blue Water Divers, he noticed that I had some air trapped in the right top of my BCD before we started our ascent. He told me to dump, and I did. Obviously an instructor who REALLY pays attention to those he is diving with, and has likely seen the outcome of trapped air ascending from depth even on a rope.

IMO when one has mastered slow ascents, then one has generally very good control over buoyancy. Here's some tips from ScubaDiviing. They don't quite follow what I do, but it's a similar approach...

http://www.scubadiving.com/training/basic_skills/seven_secrets_for_safer_diving/1/

 

[sailbahama]

First of all, many thanks to all who provided input. Excellent points were made. To answer a couple of questions...... No I was not close enough to the line to grab it or I would have hung on to that sucker for dear life.

Yes, I was speaking of "both" dump valves, one being on the right shoulder and the other being on the right rear of the scuba pro BC I was using, which is the only BC I've used during the last 15 dives. I'm not familiar with other BC's and can't comment on dump valve placement or use.

Yes, it's very possible that my initial bouency problem was more than 5 feet.

Yes, believe it or not, I was making deeper dives because of the fact that I was becoming very comfortable, I thought, with my bouency. I should mention here that I am living at a location where the last 15 dives have been made within a six week period, not stretched out over a long time frame, so the learning curve, or so I thought, was being aided by making many dives in a short time frame.

During OW classes, I'm sure I had to have been told that by pulling on the inflator hose, it also acts as a dump, but there is a ton of information being passed on during this time, and unless it's repetitive and practiced, it just won't stick during an emergency. Nowhere during OW was I asked to actually practice this and nowhere during OW was I required to actually practice dumping from anything other than the inflate hose.

Also, when someone says control the panic, I really just have to laugh. Once you find yourself shooting to the surface, trust me, you are along for the ride. Panic or not, you are along for the ride and their is very little you can do to stop it, perhaps nothing you can do stop it, so even if I was willing to do the normal guy thing and say "I maintained my complete mental control at all times" it would have simply made no difference in the outcome. I want to meet the person who, as a new diver, actually maintains complete mental control when he or she is shooting to the surface like a rocket. I'm going to nominate them for the next James Bond role, or the better yet, the next television evangilist role.

As for getting into a position that slows the ascent, even if possible, you will still be ascending at a much higher rate than a safe rate, so will it actually help off gas and avoid bends? I am guessing that it may provide more time to sort things out, and for that alone it's a wise idea.

Training goes a long way. Repetition training goes even further. My personal opinion is that the OW class is just a encore to the training one should take to be truely safe. This training might come in the form of after dive discussions with dive masters, between dive discussions with the same or actual advanced training, which is also a bit of a misnomer, because who in the heck thinks that a new diver is compentent enough to need "advanced" training. They really need more basic training with repetitive practiced skills.

As stated before, I now believe that you had better get control of a bouency issue very quickly and take an action like those actions suggested in this thread. I know this now. I didn't know it then. For all of you new divers reading this thread, you simply will not beleive how fast bouency can get totally out of control, so don't let it happen to you, not even for 10 feet. Get it under control quickly.

In the end, I hope all divers reading this thread will learn from my mistakes.

In the words of a friend of mine, I still don't know what I don't know, but a little more light shines each day.