Uncertified Scoundrels Teaching the Public to Dive in Libya

[BoltSnap]

Are the C-Cards, even though not authorized through the "fake" instructor, legimate? I mean, are they real PADI or whatever C-Cards that will be honored at other dive locations besides Libya?

Yes, they are indeed. A certified instructor orders the cards from his agency (I did NOT specify what agency btw way and never said it was PADI or any other agency) and then sells them to the crook claiming to be a real instructor. The crook gives the c-cards to his "students" when they complete the course. The instructor who issued the cards lives and works in a different town a couple of hundred miles away from the students. He doesn't have any contact with the students receiving the cards and was never anywhere close to them or observing them to determine their competency to receive the c-cards. Total scam from end to end.

 

[BoltSnap]

Hard to imagine how they could be if there isn't a legitimate instructor for PADI to tie them to. Unless the fake instructors are using real instructors' info.

Fake instructors pay real instructors money to get the cards from the real instructors for their students.

 

[Saniflush]

Fake instructors pay real instructors money to get the cards from the real instructors for their students.

Well isn't the beginning of the problem a lack of ethics with the real instructors?

 

[BoltSnap]

Well isn't the beginning of the problem a lack of ethics with the real instructors?

That is one part of it. Not all fake instructors buy cards for their students, most of them actually just teach without giving anything to their students. Some of them may just give a homemade certificate to the students. Many parties involved in the racket with plenty of responsibility and blame to go around. Some real instructors simply sell the c-cards directly to the person who wants a c-card for lots of money. It just stinks all around. The primary victim is the "consumer" who is the one that ends up dying or getting hurt in a very big way.

 

[Neilwood]

@BurhanMuntasser that is a shocking situtation.

If you know of instructors selling certificates to uncertified instructors, you can try to raise a standards violation against them but if they are not part of your organisation it could be difficult.

One of the best ways around these sorts of issues is publicity - get national news to take up the story and there is a good chance that might cause the public to question their actions ("should I trust the instructor?") as well as the agencies involved. That way you might just make a difference.

Of course there is nothing stopping the instructors setting up their own agency with whatever bulltish cards they decide to make up. It costs very little for a card printer these days.

 

[Saniflush]

That is one part of it. Not all fake instructors buy cards for their students, most of them actually just teach without giving anything to their students. Some of them may just give a homemade certificate to the students. Many parties involved in the racket with plenty of responsibility and blame to go around. Some real instructors simply sell the c-cards directly to the person who wants a c-card for lots of money. It just stinks all around. The primary victim is the "consumer" who is the one that ends up dying or getting hurt in a very big way.

Oh I get it. The student is definitely the biggest loser in the whole operation but is seems there are a couple of different problems happening and you have to figure out which ones to attack first.
In my book getting a handle on the instructors that are essentially brokering their ability to get cards would be step one.
Then attacking the the "certificate giving crowd" would be next. One of the things that in my mind keeps that in check here is having to have a cert card to buy air fills. Until air providers are willing to get on board with limiting who they sell air to, that seems like a pretty insurmountable task in my mind.
That really sucks that you have to deal with all of that. Sounds like it's time for a move.

 

[boulderjohn]

The worst types are the licensed instructors who sell scuba diving certifications to these Scammers when they have no role in training or qualifying the trainees at all. They have sold their honor and professional ethics, not to mention violating all their moral, contractual and legal obligations with their training agencies for a quick dinar.

If you know the names and the agencies, can you not report the individuals doing this to the agency. For example, if you knew that people are getting certified in Libya with my name on the card, contacting PADI about that would put an end to my instructor status in no time.

 

[tech_diver]

I can imagine a new diver showing up at an American LDS trying get an air fill with a Libyan c-card.

 

[2airishuman]

As I pointed out, many and disproportionate number of people are getting hurt and some of them dying or permanently disabled. These charlatans are teaching are teaching all age groups including teenagers and children. As an experienced dive professional myself, I can't just stand still and wait for the good times to come before I point out the tragedy taking place now in my home country. Good times may come soon or after a long time but the fraud and crime are continuing to take place and grow to even bigger proportions.

@BurhanMuntasser if your point is that people are getting injured or killed then let's talk about those specific incidents. I think it would be interesting and insightful to see what kinds of accidents are occurring when instructors with marginal training and no supervision are running classes.

If you're point is that it barks your shins because it's unfair competition, well, sorry, but I know a whole bunch of people with music degrees who complain about all the guitar teachers who don't.

 

[2airishuman]

If you know the names and the agencies, can you not report the individuals doing this to the agency. For example, if you knew that people are getting certified in Libya with my name on the card, contacting PADI about that would put an end to my instructor status in no time.

Of course the agency could clear it up if the instructor in whose names the cards are issued lives 10,000 miles away and isn't in on the deal.

Dealing with it in a remote region, that is not a major diving destination, where the primary languages are three different dialects of Arabic, with weak institutional structures, where both instructors are in on the deal, in a culture hostile to the west, is much harder.