Unacceptable Instructor Behaviors...

[TMHeimer]

I think the disagreement revolves around the amount of time devoted to teaching someone how to teach. For a school teacher, it is obviously not every minute of every course for 4 years. But there is a lot more of that than the combined time of taking a DM and Instructor Course. All the time I spent getting my skills to "demonstration" level taught me nothing about dealing with other people. The contact with students while a DM in training wasn't much--mostly observation. Internships may vary some, I guess.
It's also a bit of apples & oranges. Though I never was an Instructor, I know there is a world of difference teaching a "huge" class of 8 adult student divers vs. a classroom of 30 8th Graders. Then again, one of the 8 student divers could die, while someone in the 30+ classroom (probably) won't.
Regarding one's own dive skills and compiled experience, there is the old saying "Those that Can Do, Those that Can't teach". The best can do both, and that is probably even more important in scuba than in many other things.

 

[Jayfarmlaw]

@The Chairman Pete, how do you set your classes up? Is there a classroom/living room portion, 1 pool session, and an openwater session over 2 days? (Unless more time is required?) Are these usually done in two weekends, back to back when scheduling allows? Finally, does your free class offer apply to just instructors or can DMs get in on that offer as well? Still not sure if I want to go the instructor route, but it can't hurt to have a wider knowledge base....

Thanks,
Jay

 

[JEEP PIRATE 08]

I've noted something while reading this thread. Teachers go through a lengthy curriculum, while Instructors have On-the-Job (OJT) and some classroom learning experiences that, after skillset verification, allow them to INSTRUCT others in the art of SCUBA.

Just an observation and my $.02

Cheers -

this sort of fits one of my instructors, he did things a little different than the others, but he cut out alot of BS and he was a great instructor, had over 4k dives. I liked training with him more than any of the others I worked with.

 

[The Chairman]

@The Chairman Pete, how do you set your classes up?

Which class? For the full OW class, academics are done online. We then have a 2 hour discussion about safety and physics, usually the morning of the first pool session. Almost all skills are done in a game format. we have fun. Most pool sessions are 3 to 4 hours. All students do a second pool session and a few do more. Sleeping on the skills they struggled with on the first day magically become easy the next. Students don't move on to open water until they feel at ease enough to perform the graduation drills. OW dives are all about students combining their skills in actual dives. I don't believe in the "serial skills" demonstration method. Skills are done in situ with a few exceptions. I aim for four 45 minute dives where buddy skills and trim/buoyancy and propulsion are expected throughout the dive. Having fun is a given.

For Instructors, we have that same long discussion about the physics of diving and about the theory of teaching through games. Then we go play in a pool or spring for an hour or two where they learn how to properly trim/weight a student, and will end up going through the graduation drills. Like the OW class, we have fun.

 

[oly5050user]

I think the disagreement revolves around the amount of time devoted to teaching someone how to teach. For a school teacher, it is obviously not every minute of every course for 4 years. But there is a lot more of that than the combined time of taking a DM and Instructor Course. All the time I spent getting my skills to "demonstration" level taught me nothing about dealing with other people. The contact with students while a DM in training wasn't much--mostly observation. Internships may vary some, I guess.
It's also a bit of apples & oranges. Though I never was an Instructor, I know there is a world of difference teaching a "huge" class of 8 adult student divers vs. a classroom of 30 8th Graders. Then again, one of the 8 student divers could die, while someone in the 30+ classroom (probably) won't.
Regarding one's own dive skills and compiled experience, there is the old saying "Those that Can Do, Those that Can't teach". The best can do both, and that is probably even more important in scuba than in many other things.

Tom, your DM course should have included supervising student divers and supervising certified divers. Your instructor for DM should of had you work with any student that had issues , before you finished and after you finished DM training, once he/ she first demonstrated and explained the skill. This way the class can continue on a timely basis with little to no delay while student with issues practices with the DM for later evaluation of abilities by instructor, and the DM gets experience working with students. Again this is why I wrote that from a ow course to the I.E all courses, experiences , make an instructor, not just the IDC-I.E

 

[The Chairman]

To be clear... Diving is fun and learning it should be fun and challenging. Over the years, I've figured out how to make my class a "game with a purpose". I learned that from my years and years of volunteering for the BSA. In my IDC, we learned how to analyze, segment, and transfer any skill to a student. Making it fun was never a part of that curriculum. In fact, it felt that it was more like a boot camp designed to break you so they can remold you. A couple instructors in there kept me sane and I learn from their example even to this day. I didn't pass as my rescue skills were below par. Some remedial training with @MB and co-teaching a few classes with the Course Director and I became an instructor. I became an instructor because I was a Skipper for a BSA Venture Crew and didn't like how others taught my Scouts (Go Scuba Ducks!). One of the earliest criticisms of me in that class was that it felt like I was teaching kids. Well, yeah. During our co-teaching sessions, the Course Director was surprised at some of my workarounds as well as my patience. I think my patience is what tipped the scales in my favor and allowed him to sign off on me.

If there is one thing that's NOT taught well in most of the IDCs, it's patience. Not sure it can be taught in that setting, so don't see this as a criticism. However, whenever I hear about a class gone bad, it's almost always an instructor who lacks patience and/or compassion.

Tom, your DM course should have included supervising student divers

Assisting in classes is sporadic for most DMs and rarely do they get to learn how to teach. DMs are normally relegated to sherpa duties and I find that alarming. Many DMs do so in a few weekends. I think my last one took 18 months.

 

[oly5050user]

To be clear... Diving is fun and learning it should be fun and challenging. Over the years, I've figured out how to make my class a "game with a purpose". I learned that from my years and years of volunteering for the BSA. In my IDC, we learned how to analyze, segment, and transfer any skill to a student. Making it fun was never a part of that curriculum. In fact, it felt that it was more like a boot camp designed to break you so they can remold you. A couple instructors in there kept me sane and I learn from their example even to this day. I didn't pass as my rescue skills were below par. Some remedial training with @MB and co-teaching a few classes with the Course Director and I became an instructor. I became an instructor because I was a Skipper for a BSA Venture Crew and didn't like how others taught my Scouts (Go Scuba Ducks!). One of the earliest criticisms of me in that class was that it felt like I was teaching kids. Well, yeah. During our co-teaching sessions, the Course Director was surprised at some of my workarounds as well as my patience. I think my patience is what tipped the scales in my favor and allowed him to sign off on me.

If there is one thing that's NOT taught well in most of the IDCs, it's patience. Not sure it can be taught in that setting, so don't see this as a criticism. However, whenever I hear about a class gone bad, it's almost always an instructor who lacks patience and/or compassion.

Assisting in classes is sporadic for most DMs and rarely do they get to learn how to teach. DMs are normally relegated to sherpa duties and I find that alarming. Many DMs do so in a few weekends. I think my last one took 18 months.

True. Patience is missing by many instructors. Too many DM courses are started and done in a few weeks not allowing any real supervising experience. Here it can take anywhere from 9 months to 2 years. All depends on the candidates ability to schedule the time.

 

[TMHeimer]

Tom, your DM course should have included supervising student divers and supervising certified divers. Your instructor for DM should of had you work with any student that had issues , before you finished and after you finished DM training, once he/ she first demonstrated and explained the skill. This way the class can continue on a timely basis with little to no delay while student with issues practices with the DM for later evaluation of abilities by instructor, and the DM gets experience working with students. Again this is why I wrote that from a ow course to the I.E all courses, experiences , make an instructor, not just the IDC-I.E

I agree, and I did do those things. But supervising (as a DMT or a working DM) is not the same as teaching a full class as an instructor. Nor is helping a student one on one, or even demonstrating skills to a class (which of course I also did a lot of). I don't think we really disagree, I'm just figuring how to explain the comments you see here on SB about instructors who don't have great people skills. I was fortunate to seldom assist one of those. Of course, there are lousy school teachers too--those who have great knowledge base but poor people skills. And they did have the 4 years of college. So, not knowing the percentages of poor instructors and teachers to good ones, my theory could well be wrong.

 

[boulderjohn]

The requirements to be certified to teach school in America vary by state, but in general, the teacher must have completed a series of college courses, have at least a bachelor's degree, have worked as a student teacher, have passed exams at the state level, and completed a mentorship program as a new hire. Once hired, the teacher must be regularly supervised and evaluated by education experts. the teacher must continue to take courses to maintain and improve knowledge of teaching theory.

The cost of maintaining such a system is enormous. The requirements to be a school teacher are many, many, many times the requirements to be a scuba instructor, at many, many, many times the cost. Scuba could never possibly approach that level or preparation and supervision. And yet, is anyone here going to claim that as a result we have a school system with no poor teachers?

 

[The Chairman]

The requirements to be certified to teach school in America vary by state, but in general, the teacher must have completed a series of college courses, have at least a bachelor's degree, have worked as a student teacher, have passed exams at the state level, and completed a mentorship program as a new hire. Once hired, the teacher must be regularly supervised and evaluated by education experts. the teacher must continue to take courses to maintain and improve knowledge of teaching theory.

Boy, have I met some crappy teachers who went through all this too. Teaching is as much of a gift as it is a science. It's a dedication to others much more than some pedantic pedagogical approach.