Ultima Dry Glove System question

[Deep South Divers]

My pleasure, Yvon!

Yes... The SiTech oval rings (QCS) are the correct fit for the Waterproof Ultima Dryglove system.

Yes, I think that reinstalling the silicone wrist seals will fix the problem. Simply install the hard suit-side ring from the Ultima kit onto the soft glued-in ring that's already on your suit. Mount the silicone wrist seal between the two. Hook the lip of the silicone seal on the very last channel (closest to the glove) instead of on the middle channel... Add some silicone o-ring lubricant onto the seal between the seal and the soft suit-side ring. Do not lubricate between the silicone seal and the Ultima ring... That way, it stays on the Ultima ring, in the right spot, during installation. Slowly and surely press the two together. Make sure that the seal stays in place and doesn't wrinkle during installation. It may take some squeezing and very careful insertion to ensure it's properly situated.

After that, I am confident you will have no more leaks.

Trim the silicone seals to wherever you desire... I trimmed mine all the way down to the rings... Effectively making the suit "sealless." This makes donning and doffing very easy and you don't ever need tubes again to equalize the gloves.

The only worry, of course, is if you accidentally hole a glove... It will leak into the whole suit, rather than the glove only. Of course, with the 720, this is not really a concern, since the gloves are so much tougher than latex gloves.

I work commercially in this setup - with an underwater chainsaw - and find it very durable.

The only downside to the 720 glove is that it is more difficult to install on the rings than the latex gloves are. It's worth it, though... And we've figured out some slick ways to install.

 

[a878bob]

The water temp was 42 yesterday, what a cold, gray, windy, day, yuk.
620 on one hand, 720 on the other, with G1 liners.

The 720 was a little bit warmer I think, but not by much. The down line was a ss cable. I had more confidence putting my 720 hand on it.

No leaks, so I’ll keep running them like this to form a solid opinion. The 720 would certainly be a go to, if it was a little bigger, but, barely enough room to get my G1 in, while plenty of room in the 620.

 

[Deep South Divers]

Great review!

Interesting about the sizing difference between the PVC (620, 660) and nitrile (720) gloves. I'd never noticed the difference before, since the 720 is so much stretchier and I generally don't wear undergloves.

Would switching to the Xerotherm underglove solve the issue with snugger fit? Or would you just order a larger size next time?

...Or is it not a problem that needs a solution? Maybe it's just a closer fit, since it's stretchy?

 

[MaxBottomtime]

The water temp was 42 yesterday, what a cold, gray, windy, day, yuk.
620 on one hand, 720 on the other, with G1 liners.

The 720 was a little bit warmer I think, but not by much. The down line was a ss cable. I had more confidence putting my 720 hand on it.

No leaks, so I’ll keep running them like this to form a solid opinion. The 720 would certainly be a go to, if it was a little bigger, but, barely enough room to get my G1 in, while plenty of room in the 620.

720s are available in different sizes. I wear Xerotherm gloves inside my XL 720s with no issues.

 

[a878bob]

I have the xxl 720’s, but they are at least a size smaller than the 620’s. I don’t have the biggest paws. The 720’s had to stretch a bit to get the G1 in.

There are no xerotherm gloves out there. I called direct. They “ may” be re- released later this year.

 

[Deep South Divers]

I didn't find that the 720s were any smaller than the 660s. Maybe a bit narrower? I didn't see much difference, if at all. Maybe SHOWA made the gloves closer-fitting because they're stretchy?

I can't speak for the 620's. I don't own a pair - although I thought they were on-par with the 660's... Just thinner material.

You sure you got the same size?

 

[MaxBottomtime]

I have the xxl 720’s, but they are at least a size smaller than the 620’s. I don’t have the biggest paws. The 720’s had to stretch a bit to get the G1 in.

There are no xerotherm gloves out there. I called direct. They “ may” be re- released later this year.

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[Zef]

So, I went out and purchased a PVC coupler to make the jig similar to the one in the videos...I recalled 4 inches in my head from the video or one of the earier posts, so I got a piece that was 100mm (I live in Europe)...got home and cut a 2cm wide ring from it, got out the dremel and made a shallow groove to retain the o-ring, and cut the ring open so that it can "compress"....

...mounting the o-ring on the ring and inserting in a glove was no problem. The problem was when I removed the 720 glove from the first Ultima ring only to find that my 100mm jig ring is 15mm too small in diameter. I should have measured before purchasing.

I need to go back to the hardware store to find a coupler that is between 115mm and 120mm.

As an experiment I got a set of 660 mounted. It took some effort but not nearly as much as last Saturday when I was mounting gloves for the 1st time.

The spreader (picture below) helped to loosen up the o-rings, and the wood jig worked well too (pictures below).

I modified the wood jig design...I cut 3 circles out of some particle board I had lying around in the garage, the glove ring just fits right around them. 2 of the wood circles are screwed together and to a board as a base that I have mounted on my workbench thanks to some T-nuts that I have mounted in the underside of the work bench. The third circle is screwed to the top circle but is offset so that I can rotate it so that hangs over the two lower ones. This overhang keeps the glove ring from popping up off the lower rings. When the o-ring and glove are mounted i just twist the whole assembly counter-clockwise to rotate the top disk inline with the lower two to remove the gloved mounted ring...I am still working on getting the hang of it but believe the issue is how friggin tight the o-rings are out of the box.

Is there any tip to getting the glove cuff to pull through the o-ring easier after mounting to even everything out? I notices some discoloration of the cuff of one of the 720's that I dismounted this evening where it seems like the material stretched from all the tugging I was doing? Would soapy water work to lube the outside of the glove to help it slide under the o-ring easier? Anyone have any ideas for this? I don't want to damage the glove tugging on the cuff after wrestling the darned things onto the rings.
-Z

 

[Deep South Divers]

Good info!

Great idea, using the multiple disks to get the ring to stay. I haven't seen the need (I tend to push down while installing the glove), but the idea looks like a really good one.

I always stretch the O-rings by hand before installing. This warms them up and tends to make them more flexible.

To even things out, I tend to use a pull and roll motion, which seems to work fine. I haven't installed the gloves too far off though - I've only needed to move things a little bit.

Discoloration comes from stretching... If it's kinda whitish, then it's probably still under tension. It will even out on its own through hot and cold cycles. Unless you've holed a glove, I wouldn't worry about it.

Soapy water should work... But try wetting the ring with hairspray instead. The really cheap stuff with lots of alcohol in it. It'll slide around easily so long as it's wet... And when dry it will stick things together, adding to the security of the glove.

Outside parts exposed to water will rinse away. Good stuff for installing bicycle and motorcycle handgrips... I can only imagine it'd work well for us too.

...So long as you install the gloves while the stuff is still wet.

 

[Zef]

So after my second dive with the Ultima DGS, here are a couple of things I have learned:

1. The SHOWA 660 gloves (size XL) I mounted for today's dive felt really stiff. The water temp was 20c at the surface and 18c at 25 meters.....without the wrist equalization tubes the gloves sucked down around my hands...not so much that they were unusable but they were definitely a bit less flexible than the 720s that dived with last weekend. After the dive the 660s remained kinda stiff but when we arrived home they felt more supple....I can only imagine what they would be like when the temp drops this winter.

2. I remounted the 720 gloves (also size XL) on the rings. When I first pulled the 720's from the box after they arrived they felt stiffer than the 660s but they definitely seem to wear better and seemed a lot more flexible in the water. As others have noted the 720's fit snugger than the 660's but they are stretchier and when they are sorta vacuumed packed on your hand you will hardly notice the size difference between the two.

3. After improving my wooden disc jig a bit, I still found it a pain to get the gloves mounted...I don't know if it is because the gloves were mounted once before, or the o-rings were mounted for the last 2 weeks, or whatever, but the struggle was less intense.

4. I think I am going to scrap the whole jig thing, as while I was evening out the cuff of one of the gloves I happened to cause the o-ring to pop off....I used the slightly rounded edge of my workbench to hold the o-ring and glove in the groove of the ring while I mauled the other size of the glove and o-ring back onto the ring. I could not believe how much easier it was to do that than use the jig. I used the same technique to mount the other 720 glove and it was way way way less of struggle and I was able to get more of the cuff past the ring from the start.

5. A spray bottle with a few drops of some dawn dish soap and water made maneuvering the cuff of the glove much easier. I sprayed the outside of the glove where it goes between the ring and the o-ring and then pulled the material outward a tad so the soapy water could get between the glove and the ring....the glove slid much easier and I was able to ensure there were no over laps of the cuff under the o-ring and was able to get more of the cuff pulled through so the gloves will fit better when attached to my suit. The cuffs and suit side rings on my drysuit extend all the way to my wrists so being able to adjust the cuff of the glove so they were not so long should be an improvement.

6. Another aspect of having more cuff material pulled through under to the inside is that my hand pushes the excess material into the glove and the cuff material has less of a tendency to flap back towards and in the way of the orange sealing o-ring when donning.

7. I have a set of 720's in XXL for when the temps drop and I need a thicker glove liner. I am currently using those tiny magic stretch gloves as an insulation liner they are thin and fit great under the 720's and the 660's. SHOWA also sent me some 465's which are an orange glove with removable yellow inner glove liners. They sent me these in Large and XL with the idea that the liner from the L size will work under under the XL 720's/660's, and the liner from the XL will work under the XXL 720's/660's.

I don't think I will be using the 660's again. I need to check amazon/ebay to pick up a couple extra pair of the 720 model in XL. I greatly appreciate that SHOWA sent me the samples to try so I could figure this out.

Would love to pick up an extra set of glove rings so I could have the XXL 720s mounted and ready to go...anyone have any luck finding a source for the glove rings at a reasonable price?

-Z