i heard about the diver from my RM Sarah who was your friendly tank filler for the trip ... glad to hear that he is better
and btw ... farrah, you're shameless
and btw ... farrah, you're shameless
Uh oh...dis ain't looking so good...(FG trip)
- Thread starter Guba
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RaginCajun
Contributor
Ok, this may come off as sounding callous, but I just have to ask a simple question.
What happens in the instance where one unfortunate member of a 10-20+ person liveaboard charter has a DCS hit and the entire trip gets canned after 1 dive? Prices for these trips are anywhere from $400-700 per person and often involve long boat rides to and from.
Are the other passengers out of luck and their charter fee?
Does the Op refund the proceeds in full or less fuel, or offer a make-up trip?
What about the crew, are they out a 2,3,5 day liveaboard tip?
Does trip insurance come into play somehow?
Who's responsible? Who's accountable? And for what?
I think we've alll be there in some way or another. I know I've been the weaker diver who cost his buddy shorter bottom time due to my lack of experience and poor air consumption. This was one of the benefits about getting my wife certified in that I'd no longer have to rely on an insta-buddy whose skills or safety attitudes are unknown. So far, this hasn't worked in my favor yet, in that my wife is still a new diver and we've modified several dives to her profile and comfort level more times than not.
The no-duh answer to the question is that this is a risk you take when diving with a group and that safety of the entire group is paramount to individual aspirations. I'm glad that the diver is now safe and no one was hurt.
What happens in the instance where one unfortunate member of a 10-20+ person liveaboard charter has a DCS hit and the entire trip gets canned after 1 dive? Prices for these trips are anywhere from $400-700 per person and often involve long boat rides to and from.
Are the other passengers out of luck and their charter fee?
Does the Op refund the proceeds in full or less fuel, or offer a make-up trip?
What about the crew, are they out a 2,3,5 day liveaboard tip?
Does trip insurance come into play somehow?
Who's responsible? Who's accountable? And for what?
I think we've alll be there in some way or another. I know I've been the weaker diver who cost his buddy shorter bottom time due to my lack of experience and poor air consumption. This was one of the benefits about getting my wife certified in that I'd no longer have to rely on an insta-buddy whose skills or safety attitudes are unknown. So far, this hasn't worked in my favor yet, in that my wife is still a new diver and we've modified several dives to her profile and comfort level more times than not.
The no-duh answer to the question is that this is a risk you take when diving with a group and that safety of the entire group is paramount to individual aspirations. I'm glad that the diver is now safe and no one was hurt.
I don't have a definitive answer to your main question, although I suspect it's trip insurance or bust. (Gulf-diving might offer a discount in such a case as good customer relations, but they're certainly not liable for anything; the waiver they have us sign is pretty clear on that). This is the first time I've heard of the CG not being able to evac the person involved - but in this day of rising fuel costs and cutbacks, I can easily imagine even the CG having to make harder budget decisions more often and this happening more in the future...
Regarding your wife modifying (shortening) your profile, just wait. Unless you and your wife both are in abnormal extremes in terms of body makeup, fitness level, etc compared to the median (males being on average massier), when she gets more comfortable it's almost guaranteed she'll burn air slower than you. Simple delta lung volume in an open system would guarantee that, all else (fitness level, etc.) being within a standard distribution or two. Yes, I speak from experience.
Regarding your wife modifying (shortening) your profile, just wait. Unless you and your wife both are in abnormal extremes in terms of body makeup, fitness level, etc compared to the median (males being on average massier), when she gets more comfortable it's almost guaranteed she'll burn air slower than you. Simple delta lung volume in an open system would guarantee that, all else (fitness level, etc.) being within a standard distribution or two. Yes, I speak from experience.
OP
Guba
Contributor
Don't hold me to this, but the word on the boat at the time was that the CG choppers were already deployed (possibly due to increased action concerning the coming storm). By the time they could have gotten to us, we would have been well on our way to shore.
But to the question...Yup, those waivers pretty much say it all. They'll do what they can and will not pull the plug on a trip unless it's absolutely necessary. For instance, even with predictions of a much shortened trip due to Dolly, we still went out to get what dives we could before it hit. I thought that was pretty special, personally. The fact that we had another emergency was just unfortunate for all concerned. Isn't it pretty much the same on all trips? If you run down to Cozumel but get covered up by a tropical storm, unless your travel agent offered trip insurance, you're OOL (out o' luck). We all weighed the risks...I can't cry too loud.
But to the question...Yup, those waivers pretty much say it all. They'll do what they can and will not pull the plug on a trip unless it's absolutely necessary. For instance, even with predictions of a much shortened trip due to Dolly, we still went out to get what dives we could before it hit. I thought that was pretty special, personally. The fact that we had another emergency was just unfortunate for all concerned. Isn't it pretty much the same on all trips? If you run down to Cozumel but get covered up by a tropical storm, unless your travel agent offered trip insurance, you're OOL (out o' luck). We all weighed the risks...I can't cry too loud.
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We did a FG trip just about this date last year, and for us that's a flight to Houston, car rental to to the Gulf, overnight at hotel before flying home. No way were we going without trip insurance. I don't remember the costs of the trip or insurance, but for a $1,000, 4day trip at my advanced age: $56 - many would pay less.
I hate insurance, rather self insure usually - but sometimes ya just gotta - like auto liability, homeowners, medical, Flower Gardens.
I hate insurance, rather self insure usually - but sometimes ya just gotta - like auto liability, homeowners, medical, Flower Gardens.
stablgr
Contributor
Weather's not looking too great, and I'm booked up for a trip this weekend. 
Here's hoping.
Here's hoping.
scubashawn123
Contributor
IslandFrog
Contributor
Guba,
Sorry your trip got shortened, but one dive is better than no dive, Eh? I am also glad to hear that the diver that took the undeserved hit is ok.
As for dives getting shortened for one diver due to the buddy's air consumption, well I have been on both sides of this although mostly on the side where it's the buddies air consumption that shortened the dive. In every case, I don't see it as an issue. I have gotten in a great dive and enjoyed the time that we did get to spend underwater. I am just happy when everyone gets back safe and sound. There's always the next dive to look forward to. Well, that's my 2psi worth. d
Sorry your trip got shortened, but one dive is better than no dive, Eh? I am also glad to hear that the diver that took the undeserved hit is ok.
As for dives getting shortened for one diver due to the buddy's air consumption, well I have been on both sides of this although mostly on the side where it's the buddies air consumption that shortened the dive. In every case, I don't see it as an issue. I have gotten in a great dive and enjoyed the time that we did get to spend underwater. I am just happy when everyone gets back safe and sound. There's always the next dive to look forward to. Well, that's my 2psi worth. d
BillM777
Registered
Ok, a dumb question...
I am new to scuba, just got certified in March. I know what DCS means but what does "undeserved hit" mean?
I am new to scuba, just got certified in March. I know what DCS means but what does "undeserved hit" mean?
Bill:
It means basically "stuff happens".
More clearly: nitrogen loading is not an exact science, and varies with body type, fitness level, age, and all sorts of different physiological and environmental (temperature, etc.) factors. I'm sure you learned in class that hydration level for example makes a difference. Heck, even wearing a wetsuit too tight and constricting circulation somewhere can make a difference.
So an "undeserved hit" generally means experiencing DCS symptoms without any obvious violation in the dive profile: diver followed no-deco limits of his computer, didn't ascend too fast, didn't exert him (or her) self excessively during the dive, did a safety stop, was properly hydrated before the dive, etc. Yet still suffered a hit. It can and does happen: the table limits are statistical not deterministic in nature, and computer algorithms vary, some being more conservative than others. FG diving is fairly deep, and (not applicable in this case, since it reportedly happened after the first dive) liveaboard diving means many repeated dives in a short time interval, which all gradually add to nitrogen loading.
Don't let it freak you out about diving - like I said, it DOES happen, but you don't hear about it happening regularly. Once a given diver experiences an undeserved hit, if a physiological complication can't be found that might have been a triggering factor, they may or may not ever experience one again. (But if it were me, I'd add an extra safety margin somehow, like deep stops, switch to a more conservative computer, etc.)
EDIT: By the way, while I believe I was pretty accurate and thorough (and thanks for the thanks by the way), I am not a dive instructor and definitely not a medical professional (nor do I play one on Scubaboard or TV). So by all means if you want to explore this further please do try somewhere like DAN's FAQs, etc.
It means basically "stuff happens".
More clearly: nitrogen loading is not an exact science, and varies with body type, fitness level, age, and all sorts of different physiological and environmental (temperature, etc.) factors. I'm sure you learned in class that hydration level for example makes a difference. Heck, even wearing a wetsuit too tight and constricting circulation somewhere can make a difference.
So an "undeserved hit" generally means experiencing DCS symptoms without any obvious violation in the dive profile: diver followed no-deco limits of his computer, didn't ascend too fast, didn't exert him (or her) self excessively during the dive, did a safety stop, was properly hydrated before the dive, etc. Yet still suffered a hit. It can and does happen: the table limits are statistical not deterministic in nature, and computer algorithms vary, some being more conservative than others. FG diving is fairly deep, and (not applicable in this case, since it reportedly happened after the first dive) liveaboard diving means many repeated dives in a short time interval, which all gradually add to nitrogen loading.
Don't let it freak you out about diving - like I said, it DOES happen, but you don't hear about it happening regularly. Once a given diver experiences an undeserved hit, if a physiological complication can't be found that might have been a triggering factor, they may or may not ever experience one again. (But if it were me, I'd add an extra safety margin somehow, like deep stops, switch to a more conservative computer, etc.)
EDIT: By the way, while I believe I was pretty accurate and thorough (and thanks for the thanks by the way), I am not a dive instructor and definitely not a medical professional (nor do I play one on Scubaboard or TV). So by all means if you want to explore this further please do try somewhere like DAN's FAQs, etc.
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