U.S. source for fluorosilicone grease?

[Frank O]

Does anyone know of a U.S. source for Dow-Corning's Molykote FS1292 fluorosilicone grease? This is the kind of stuff you would use on, say, Olympus and Sea & Sea silicone O-rings. I hate buying the overpriced manufacturer-specific tiny tubes, and am used to buying my O-ring-type greases in big toothpaste-sized tubes for about $10. Although I find this grease listed on Dow-Corning's site and on various spec sheets, I don't actually see a U.S. retailer that carries it -- McMaster-Carr doesn't, for example. I do see one U.K. retailer online charging a hefty price. Thanks for any leads.

 

[cool_hardware52]

Does anyone know of a U.S. source for Dow-Corning's Molykote FS1292 fluorosilicone grease? This is the kind of stuff you would use on, say, Olympus and Sea & Sea silicone O-rings. I hate buying the overpriced manufacturer-specific tiny tubes, and am used to buying my O-ring-type greases in big toothpaste-sized tubes for about $10. Although I find this grease listed on Dow-Corning's site and on various spec sheets, I don't actually see a U.S. retailer that carries it -- McMaster-Carr doesn't, for example. I do see one U.K. retailer online charging a hefty price. Thanks for any leads.

Frank,

I'd try companies that specialize in selling Orings and other seals. In SoCal Valley Seal comes to mind. I'm not in my office so I'm working from memory. You might also try commercial bearing suppliers such as King Bearing or Bearings and Drives. These guys also sell orings, grease seals and specialty lubes.



Regards,



Tobin George

 

[davemmb]

Does anyone know of a U.S. source for Dow-Corning's Molykote FS1292 fluorosilicone grease? This is the kind of stuff you would use on, say, Olympus and Sea & Sea silicone O-rings. I hate buying the overpriced manufacturer-specific tiny tubes, and am used to buying my O-ring-type greases in big toothpaste-sized tubes for about $10. Although I find this grease listed on Dow-Corning's site and on various spec sheets, I don't actually see a U.S. retailer that carries it -- McMaster-Carr doesn't, for example. I do see one U.K. retailer online charging a hefty price. Thanks for any leads.

Don't know if this is the place for this question...but why fluorosilicone grease? And do we really know that Sea & Sea etc. are using O-Rings from silicone? Silicone's claim to fame is its ability to withstand high temperature gases, hardly the situation with underwater cameras. It's big shortcoming is wear resistance. It handles wear about as well as an eraser. I have never been able to get anyone to tell me exactly what synthetic rubber these companies are using. It's my opinion that they play games so they can charge very high prices. Like you, I have always bought my grease, tubes of automotive silicone grease, from places like Pep Boys. I go along with standard silicone grease because, just possibly, the O-rings are made from ethylene propylene and petroleum based greases attack and swell EPR. EPR makes sense for underwater cameras since it's claim to fame is water resistance.

If Sea & Sea etc. really are using silicone rubber (fluorosilicone is even worse...it is subject to major compression set) then I'd measure the O-Ring and substitute a 50 or 60 durometer nitrile. Even 70 durometer. That's been used for years on Nikonos etc. cameras. Of course, you'll lose the manufacturers guarantee which is how they keep you paying way too much for products you don't need. It's your decision; I bought my own O-Rings for years for my Nikonos IV and V and SB-105 with no problem. These days there are lots of suppliers of metric O-Rings.

Someday, someone will force the manufacturers to spell out the material used in their seals, but don't hold you breath waiting for it.

 

[Frank O]

Don't know if this is the place for this question...but why fluorosilicone grease? And do we really know that Sea & Sea etc. are using O-Rings from silicone?

Sorry for being a while in responding, but I didn't see the post until now. Those are certainly reasonable questions. I'm basing the interest in fluorosilicone grease on this maintenance FAQ on a site in the U.K.:

http://www.camerasunderwater.co.uk/info/pages/maint.html

I wouldn't want to use a silicone grease on a silicone O-ring and find that it swells and fails in service.

There seems to be excessive mystery out there about O-rings and grease. As you know, every manufacturer warns only to use their O-rings and greases, which go at premium prices -- but they never say what it really is. This might leave me toting around different greases for the camera or housing, strobes, cords, extension tubes, etc. I did get one manufacturer to tell me what grease they actually use (a standard Dow-Corning formula). Also, I heard a funny story from another manufacturer. "Well, we use Dow-Corning xyz here," I was told, "but really, just about anything would work. Cooking oil would be fine in a pinch."

Interesting that you bought your own O-rings for your Nikonos without problems. I assumed early on that this would be fine, but then got warned by manufacturers about playing too fast and loose with O-rings. I was told, for example, that I shouldn't use a Nikonos lens O-ring on my Gates extension tubes, or vice-versa; although the lens and the extension tube fit into exactly the same place in the camera, I was told the O-ring channels in each might be milled slightly differently (metric vs. imperial?). I also got the same advice about not mixing O-rings between, say, an Ikelite Nikonos sync cord and the Nikonos sync cord connector cap; again, although these screw into exactly the same place on the camera body, supposedly they might be milled differently.

At any rate, most of my camera gear is now long out of warranty, though I do try to make a point of using Ike grease on my new Ike D70 housing (don't get me started on the tiny, messy Ike grease tubes ...)

 

[fpoole]

Curious.... I've read, over the last 2-3 years, various posts on O-Rings and Grease etc... and I got fed up with paying high prices for them too.

I found an o-Ring Supplier, in SoCal (simple web search) - and many everywhere else too, and the bottom line is I sent my o-rings down for Sizing by them. They gave me the SKU# and I ordered a life time supply for the cost of 2 Distributer O-ring sets. And they've work just fine for the last year in my L&M Tetra Oly 3040 housing (shooting a 4040).

I just got a backup Oly 5050 PT015 housing (used for Macro/Natural lighting), so my question is if I send the Oly O-rings down for sizing and matching, might I be able to find one of a "Normal" O-ring (sorry, don't know the difference between Olys and Plain Old O-rings but recognizing there is an extreme difference). Why couldn't I use a replacement, maybe the "Squishing Ability" might be different?? they seem softer or possibly find the same type of Material as the Oly uses just cheaper..

Just wondering and now that I have a 5050, I'll probably send the O-rings down for a match and SKU# and the type of "Tube Grease" and see what they come up with...

But as stated above, it's a rip off... IMNSHO... the price savings for O-rings might be off set by getting insurance for a year to cover if there is a problem...

Just a thought...

 

[jcclink]

PT-015 O-Ring Sizes

Here's a URL to the thread that contains all the information on the c5050 orings:

http://www.digitaldiver.net/yabbse/index.php?board=2;action=display;threadid=5433

Japanese JIS 2401 "P" series is the Standard for sizes P3 & P5, you'll find the standard here: http://mdmetric.com/or/jispgb.htm

All o-rings BUNA 70 (aka nitrile)

buttons:

seventeen o-rings, order number OR-2.8X1.9 from Maryland Metrics ( $3.94 per 100)
(aka Japanese Standard Size P3) http://mdmetric.com/

on/off & mode dial control:

one o-ring, order number OR-4.8X1.9 from Maryland Metrics ( $3.94 per 100)
(aka Japanese Standard Size P5)

one o-ring, Precision Associates custom o-ring 0.053 x 0.074 (unknown cost)
http://www.precisionassoc.com/customf.htm (1-800-394-6590)

As far as grease is concerned, use generic silicone grease on the Buna (black) o-rings & water (spit) on the main silicone (red) rings.

 

[fpoole]

Mann O'man... thanx much..

Thought I was pretty careful on locating
stuff.. missed this entirely..
thanx again... ;-))

( $3.94 per 100) LOL... go figure... Geesh...

 

[jcclink]

Stay with the metric JIS sizes. Standard US sizes for the small o-rings are not within proper tolerances so they should not be substituted for the factory o-rings. There is probably a satisfactory US substitute for the main o-rings but you'd have to check size & tolerances. You may be able to change the main o-rings to Buna with a 50 durometer (a little softer than the normal 70) if you want all the o-rings the same material. Grease Buna o-rings with a good grade of generic silicone grease. If you stick with the red silicone ones they really don't need to be greased - just moisten them with water for assembly.

 

[davemmb]

Think I'm replying to your message; I'm new to messaging/threads on the net.

There is a world of different logic in equipment design between metric and U.S.Standard (Imperial?) O-Rings. So an Ikelite (U.S.) and a Nikonos (Japan) fitting might go in the same counterbore but have totally different groove diameters. Even with the same cross section O-Ring there could be a difference since U.S. logic is to use an oversize cross section in a standard radial space to affect squeeze, while metric logic is to use a standard cross section and undersize radial space to affect squeeze. For example: A nominal 1/8" cross section U.S. O-Ring would have an actual cross section of .139" and go in a .125" radial space. But a metric O-ring could have an actual 3.5mm cross section (.138") but go in something close to a 3mm radial space. Fortunately, most underwater O-Ring applications are static, so while cross section is critical, the ring diameter can be not quite so critical, but it should deviate only a very, very little!

If anyone out there wants a list of sizes of metric O-Rings for Nikonos V (the main seal on the IV is a special, I can't help you) and SB-103/5 I'll give you the info. But, although I used them for years without a leak, you might get a leak and I don't want to be sued, so there's a problem.

And, as I said before, I used 70 Durometer O-Rings for years with no leakage. Some of the new ones seem to be softer and am sure there's a reason for it. I just don't know what it is. Also don't know why silicone grease can't be used on Silicone O-Rings. The Parker O-Ring Handbook (aka the bible of the industry) says it's OK...see page A9-8 of almost any edition. It is the petroleum based greases (Vaseline etc) which cannot be used on silicone, ethylene propylene or butyl.

As you may have guessed, I made my living selling O-Rings and other seals. Am now retired and trying to be an underwater photographer. Just got a D70 and am researching what kind of housing to get; but guess that would be a different thread.

All for now. Doubt if this was any help, but it was fun writing it and remembering what I used to do.

Dave

Sorry for being a while in responding, but I didn't see the post until now. Those are certainly reasonable questions. I'm basing the interest in fluorosilicone grease on this maintenance FAQ on a site in the U.K.:

http://www.camerasunderwater.co.uk/info/pages/maint.html

I wouldn't want to use a silicone grease on a silicone O-ring and find that it swells and fails in service.

There seems to be excessive mystery out there about O-rings and grease. As you know, every manufacturer warns only to use their O-rings and greases, which go at premium prices -- but they never say what it really is. This might leave me toting around different greases for the camera or housing, strobes, cords, extension tubes, etc. I did get one manufacturer to tell me what grease they actually use (a standard Dow-Corning formula). Also, I heard a funny story from another manufacturer. "Well, we use Dow-Corning xyz here," I was told, "but really, just about anything would work. Cooking oil would be fine in a pinch."

Interesting that you bought your own O-rings for your Nikonos without problems. I assumed early on that this would be fine, but then got warned by manufacturers about playing too fast and loose with O-rings. I was told, for example, that I shouldn't use a Nikonos lens O-ring on my Gates extension tubes, or vice-versa; although the lens and the extension tube fit into exactly the same place in the camera, I was told the O-ring channels in each might be milled slightly differently (metric vs. imperial?). I also got the same advice about not mixing O-rings between, say, an Ikelite Nikonos sync cord and the Nikonos sync cord connector cap; again, although these screw into exactly the same place on the camera body, supposedly they might be milled differently.

At any rate, most of my camera gear is now long out of warranty, though I do try to make a point of using Ike grease on my new Ike D70 housing (don't get me started on the tiny, messy Ike grease tubes ...)

 

[Frank O]

Just got a D70 and am researching what kind of housing to get; but guess that would be a different thread.

All for now. Doubt if this was any help, but it was fun writing it and remembering what I used to do.

Dave, thanks for the info, that's a big help (as is the info from jcclink).

There are lots of D70 housing threads out there. I'll just contribute my brief two cents that my research suggested that there isn't a single all-around "best" housing; it depends on pocketbook and preferences. I was heavily invested in Ike strobes, so when I got a D70 I went with an Ike housing. Ike's housing also has the plus of being the cheapest one out there. On the negative side, it's big (one of my dive buddies uses an Aquatica-housed Canon Rebel, and by comparison my Ike D70 rig looks like a hulking giant). If cost were no object and I was starting from scratch, I'd probably go with a Subal.