U-869 and the ongoing arguments

[Rhone Man]

I have no stake in the arguments, but I think Gary Gentile always got rubbed up the wrong way that he didn't get enough (or any) credit for his involvement in the discovery of the identity of the U-Boat. I have never Gentile's book, so I have no idea what information he found, or what he relayed to John Chatterton or Richie Kohler. It clearly burns him up though, because he just won't let go of it. I am also guessing that the person who was previously the most famous wreck diver in the world was a little bit ticked at being usurped in such grand fashion.

Funnily enough I did dive with a couple of "wreckies" the other day who knew Gary Gentile, and they were telling me that Gentile, and two other highly accomplished wreck divers (who were mentioned in Shadow Divers) - Tom Packer and Steve Gatto had some pretty hair raising experiences trying to access the engine room where proof of identity was eventually found.

Whether someone actually dived the wreck before the incidents described in the book or not... who knows. In the book it says when John Chatterton first went down he initially thought it was a barge, and only when he had a good look did he realise it was a U-Boat. Bouncing onto a wreck, and penetrating and identifying it are clearly very different things.

It certainly seems to touch raw nerves, though. A sample of the reviews on Amazon of Gentile's book reveals some pretty entrenched positions: Amazon.com: Customer Reviews: Shadow Divers Exposed: the Real Saga of the U-869

 

[Mr.X]

I can buy that argument. One peculiar trait that I read about Mr Gentile when I was reading other books about the Andria Doria, etc was that he only did interviews if you paid a "consulting" fee. I understand thats how he makes his living, but I can also see how that would rub people wrong.

There are many folks out there who are more than willing to waste your time. I know this all too well. Gary makes his living writing, consulting, diving etc. He has no time to waste on folks who want freebies and do nothing to support the work that he, or others have done.

The 'gate' fee is no biggie for someone, or organizations who are serious about wanting a guest speaker.

X


p.s. when you first descend on the U-869, or U-who (this is what we were calling it before ID) it is best described as a big object in a pitch black ocean. It is super dark down there most days. As you work your way around the hull you realize you're on a sub. The top deck no longer has any wood planking on it.

 

[novicediver]

Yeah but charging for simple interviews somewhat borders on arrogance. Being self-published though, is a little bit of an indication of the limited scope of people that want to hear what he has to say. Either way, it doesn't matter to me.

 

[Jay_SMART_Diver]

I have read both books, and there is always some discrepancies in every story depending on who tells the story. I know Mr. Gentile is an accomplished diver with contributions to the diving community through some of his books and teachings, however the bitterness with which U-869 Exposed is written feels like more of a tantrum with the way he thumbs his nose at Chatterton and Kohler with the sarcastic use of certain terms (the Detectives, etc.) Instead of embracing the success of Kohler and Chatterton, and what they have done for the dive community. He acts just pissed that The History Channel didn't offer him a show. I've met Richie and he is a genuine stand-up great guy and everything I've heard about John is the same. I just wish Gary would stop acting like an impetuous ass with the U-869 thing, go find his own wreck or do something to CONTRIBUTE to the betterment of the dive community instead of his internal sabotage of it. FLAME ON!!

 

[Deep-Thief]

What we got right here, Is a Great Big Can of Worms, and that can has been spilt.

 

[b1gcountry]

"Shipwreck Heresies" is a pretty emotional title. George Irvine might have competition for the bitterest diver.

I don't really care one way or another, Shadow Divers was an awesome book, and so was The Last Dive. It's sort of interesting that Chatterton/Kohler bear the brunt of GG's ire, and not Robert Kurson, the author.

 

[100days-a-year]

Gentiles books have done 10 times more to introduce divers to wrecks and wreckdiving but K & C have done more to popularize the sport with the masses.

I'd love to dive with Gentile because I think he'd respect the confidentiality of my wrecksites and it would be great to listen to his stories.
K & C definitely don't do stuff halfa$$ed but I'd be concerned my discoveries might be made not only public but they'd make any shekels to be made on the situation.

 

[Rhone Man]

I have never met any of them, but I know people who know them, and all three are supposed to be standup guys, and at least GG and JC seemed to be friends at one point (at least they did the Lusitania expedition together). I guess even standup guys can fall out.

 

[Mr.X]

It's interesting that some resort to name calling while stating "it doesn't matter" in a previous post.

I've met all three of the fellas from time to time on the boats and underwater. During the Doria, U-Who,etc. years they saw a lot of each other regularly as that fraternity of pioneering wreck divers is a small cohort. I have respect for what each of them did, their mental and physical toughness and their promotion of the sport either directly, or indirectly. They know each other well.

That being said, taking pot shots as a internet diver (probably) nowhere in their league is cheap, given lack of direct knowledge related to the nuances that exist in this small cadre of divers and the related "politics" that surround that niche of the sport & exploration.

X

 

[DA Aquamaster]

Yeah but charging for simple interviews somewhat borders on arrogance. Being self-published though, is a little bit of an indication of the limited scope of people that want to hear what he has to say. Either way, it doesn't matter to me.

If you are a diver the odds are good you wil end up buying self published books, if you are a cave or wreck diver it is almost certain as the market for those books is, like it or not, very limited. Limited market does not however mean the books are not interesting or well written, it just means that a large publisher does not feel they can sell enough to make it worth their while.

In fact, I would often argue the opposite. If an author is targeting a mass audience, the book often gets embellished a bit to make it a better read as opposed to writing soley adrier technical book or a less embellished history of a shipwreck.

I have several of Gary's books ranging from a technical diving manual to several ship wreck histories and I have enjoyed them all and learned something from most of them.

So if you want to bash Gary or attack his credibility on the basis of vanity publishing go right ahead - just understand it is an ignorant and basically BS argument that runs the risk of cementing the reputation of the person promoting it as a nobody/wannabe.