U-869 and the ongoing arguments

[100days-a-year]

A mass market book on tech diving...embellished?Surely you jest

The dive reports here a good example,some folks are great at telling the minutiae of details in a dry factual manner at one end while at the other end some guys never let the truth get in the way of a good story.

 

[Buoyant1]

If you are a diver the odds are good you wil end up buying self published books, if you are a cave or wreck diver it is almost certain as the market for those books is, like it or not, very limited. Limited market does not however mean the books are not interesting or well written, it just means that a large publisher does not feel they can sell enough to make it worth their while.

In fact, I would often argue the opposite. If an author is targeting a mass audience, the book often gets embellished a bit to make it a better read as opposed to writing soley adrier technical book or a less embellished history of a shipwreck.

I have several of Gary's books ranging from a technical diving manual to several ship wreck histories and I have enjoyed them all and learned something from most of them.

So if you want to bash Gary or attack his credibility on the basis of vanity publishing go right ahead - just understand it is an ignorant and basically BS argument that runs the risk of cementing the reputation of the person promoting it as a nobody/wannabe.

I have as well, and I've enjoyed all that I've read so far. I read SDE and only like it for some of the information he cites to reinforce his credibility on the subject. That said, I think the parts of the book where he's tossing dirt on SD are petty, and cheapens his reputation a tad. But you can't take away that the man has had a pretty impressive diving career, like his methods or not!

I would have respected SDE more if it were just another account of the same event, rather than an "expose"

 

[mike_s]

I have never met any of them, but I know people who know them, and all three are supposed to be standup guys, and at least GG and JC seemed to be friends at one point (at least they did the Lusitania expedition together). I guess even standup guys can fall out.

I think the diffrence is one set of guys took the "high road" and the other took the "low road" in how they handled it....

I'm sure there is more to this story....

but one of them goes on and on with public statements about the other(s)....


Hopefully this issue and bitterness between them will be resolved in the future.

 

[jamiemac]

JC and RK don't seem to be rising to the bait. The only time I heard Shadow Divers Exposed mentioned by either of them while they've been aboard my boat is when Richie screwed something up and told us.

'Hey, you know I'm full of bull, there's even a book written about it'

Made me laugh. Our boat's copy of SDE has survived their charters intact too

Jamie

MV Trident

Tech Thailand

 

[RJP]

It certainly seems to touch raw nerves, though. A sample of the reviews on Amazon of Gentile's book reveals some pretty entrenched positions...

It is pretty interesting that the reader reviews are all either 5 stars or 1 star - nothing in between really.

Also ironic for a "vanity press" book that what appears on the main page under the "Editorial Review" heading is simply the intro from GG's own homepage.

:cool2:

 

[John_B]

Chatterton and Kohler *identified* the U-869. Where did they ever claim they *discovered* the wreck?

I don't know the personalities involved (I've never met any of them, nor do I feel the need to), but everything I read about Gentile leads me to think he's probably just a bitter old man. Props to JC and RK for taking the high road.

 

[Buoyant1]

Chatterton and Kohler *identified* the U-869. Where did they ever claim they *discovered* the wreck?

I don't know the personalities involved (I've never met any of them, nor do I feel the need to), but everything I read about Gentile leads me to think he's probably just a bitter old man. Props to JC and RK for taking the high road.

You're right! and if you seek out the "interview" under the basic scuba forums with JC he'll even admit that they took a good educated guess on WHY the U-boat sank, and addresses a few other questions about it. He's been pretty forthright with us about it.

 

[waterpirate]

All three of these men including others in the mid atlantic who work very hard to remain hidden are diving gods/living legends. All of their credentials are un questionable in regard to achievments. The books are books.
In the mid atlantic heyday they all knew each other, dove together, drank together, yada yada.
If they choose to throw stones at each other or whatever, so what. I think it it is very presuming for anyone to form an opinion about the events then or now. I find it very entertaining personally, their antics as well as the antics of others who were not there.
As far as G.G. charging for consultation/interview my hat is off, in my real day job I often tell people talk is cheap and free, unless you want specifics. If you need specifics, pay me cash now.

Just my .02
Eric

 

[jeffchandler1]

The way I see it, Chatterton and Kohler tell the best story!! Common guys, they have pictures and **** plates to back up their talk. Gentile is just talking smack. Does he have the bell? Let's see it.

 

[jeffchandler1]

Interesting that Scubaboard blocks out the word "N-A-Z-I" as if everyone is offended by the word (see above post). But they don't block out "gentile". I guess if a real gentile utters the N-word, they he is somehow a bigot. But if a Jewish gentleman utters the word "gentile", he's not being a bigot against others who don't share his particular religious persuasion. Personally, I'm more offended at the latter.

Sorry for the off-subject observation. I know this is a dive forum. Nonetheless, I didn't know that "N-A-Z-I" was a cuss word. Thanks for the education.