Please provide a reference link to support your assertion.
U-576 found off the coast of North Carolina
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Please provide a reference link to support your assertion.
njdiver1
Contributor
Protection for Sunken Military Vessels and Aircraft
SUNKEN MILITARY CRAFT
http://coast.noaa.gov/data/Document...Sunken Military Craft Act.pdf?redirect=301ocm
http://coast.noaa.gov/data/Documents/OceanLawSearch/Public Law 108-375.pdf?redirect=301ocm
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE...2011-title10-subtitleA-partI-chap2-sec113.pdf
http://www.shipwreck.net/pdf/Amicus-Cong-final.pdf
DEMA Inquiry Prompts Response from US Navy on Guidelines for Archaeological Investigations - The Diving Equipment & Marketing Association
http://c.ymcdn.com/sites/dema.site-ym.com/resource/resmgr/Documents/Clarification_of_Terms-Sunke.pdf
---------- Post added October 25th, 2014 at 11:15 AM ----------
http://www.unesco.org/new/en/cultur...tural-heritage/2001-convention/official-text/
http://www.unesco.org/new/en/culture/themes/underwater-cultural-heritage/
http://www.ioc-unesco.org/index.php...ater-cultural-heritage&catid=14&Itemid=100063
http://www.mpil.de/files/pdf1/mpunyb_rau_6.pdf
International law for the protection of the underwater cultural heritage: can our past be salvaged?
http://www.gc.noaa.gov/gcil_heritage2.html
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Dr. Lecter
Contributor
I don't think anyone was planning on salvaging from the U-boat...decidedly uncool. The merchant ship, however, sank without loss of life and if someone who dove to 700' wants a souvenir off it, they should not be begrudged it.
Again... These simply don't apply.
The sunken military craft act applies to MILITARY vessels that were US flagged located anywhere in the world, or foreign vessels with 24 nautical miles. according to the article, the ships are 30 miles off shore, so the law wouldn't apply.
An amicus brief isn't law, its someone's opinion on the intent of the law. In this case, members of congress were arguing that a merchant vessel, even if serving a military purpose, would not fall under the protection of the sunken military vessels act. Supreme court handed the ship over, because it detirmined it was a spanish military vessel when it sank.
The UNESCO act doesn't apply, since the vessels in question have not been under for more than 100 years.
My point is, there is a civilian vessel that sank as a result of targetting by a foreign military vessel, and nothing that I read in your resources would suggest that it would qualify as a war grave. The German U-boat should qualify, but I would honestly need to read more. Frankly, germany changing from the Third Reich and having a new government instituted would make me question whether or not modern Germany could still claim title to those vessels, and more importantly, whether modern Germany would want to claim title to those vessels. I would think they would, but I'd need to see something more.
I'm in no way in favor of disturbing a war grave like the u-boat, but whether or not she has the protection of law is a matter I have not seen anything to show one way or the other.
The merchant vessel, well, that one looks to be free game.
Not trying to bust your chops, but tossing a bunch of the same legal documents at me doesn't change what's in them. You find something in law that shows that disturbing the wreck of a German U-boat outside the territorial waters of the US is illegal and I'll concede, but what you've shown me doesn't state that, that I could find at least...
As mentioned in the above post, UNESCO does not apply to the United States. We come back to the argument about salvaging artifacts that are endangered on the seabed. There is no real enforcement of these "laws/regulations" anyways.
I understand that this is a war grave, but within the next few years the living connections to this conflict will be gone. What better way to tell a story than seeing what it is made of in today's world.
I understand that this is a war grave, but within the next few years the living connections to this conflict will be gone. What better way to tell a story than seeing what it is made of in today's world.
njdiver1
Contributor
"Those who would engage in unauthorized activities directed at sunken State craft are advised that disturbance or recovery of such craft should not occur without the express permission of the sovereign government retaining ownership, NOAA said, adding, the United States will use its authority to protect and preserve sunken State craft of the United States and other nations."
U BOATS GERMAN WORLD WARTIME SUBMARINES U BOOT UNTERSEEBOOT
U BOATS GERMAN WORLD WARTIME SUBMARINES U BOOT UNTERSEEBOOT
What authority does it have in international waters 12 miles or beyond offshore?
"Shipwrecks entitled to Sovereign Immunity" Includes wrecks of warships even if unclaimed by the nation to which they belonged and even if located beyond territorial limits. The War Grave Convention is widely observed, as it should be.
(NPS Abandoned Ships Guidelines 55 Federal Register, 50, 116; 50, 112; (12/14/1990))
Years back I've seen people bring up skeletonized human remains a couple of times. Very bad form, I think. But then, I've also seen missing tintypes, pried off gravestones in old cemeteries. People can be unbearably vile.
I was on a dragger once which brought up about a dozen cans of wartime Pilsener. Stuff in the mud tend to remain intact because it is anoxic down there. It quickly makes up for lost time.
(NPS Abandoned Ships Guidelines 55 Federal Register, 50, 116; 50, 112; (12/14/1990))
Years back I've seen people bring up skeletonized human remains a couple of times. Very bad form, I think. But then, I've also seen missing tintypes, pried off gravestones in old cemeteries. People can be unbearably vile.
I was on a dragger once which brought up about a dozen cans of wartime Pilsener. Stuff in the mud tend to remain intact because it is anoxic down there. It quickly makes up for lost time.
Again. This would only apply to the u-boat. And its enforceability is questionable at 30miles offshore. I am in no way advocating disturbing the u-boat, but simple question whether its a crime (in the states) to do so. Removing a skull is atrocious. Pulling a deck gun? Debatable...
The merchant ship still looks to be fair game.
The merchant ship still looks to be fair game.
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