Two die trapped in wreck

[LouUK]

This is a very curious subject to me... we are starting a Ship to Reef program soon, and I just wonder how the ship was prepared to prevent them from entering area that would allow them to get lost. One of the things that we have trouble with here locally on the Yukon is that particals in the water settle, then once a diver enters an area that hasn't been stirred in a while the viz goes down to nothing.. and thats when they get lost. I just wonder if these divers were in a place they shouldn't have been... any one know??

The hearsay (and that is all it is) is that they were found in the bow section, in a room that was silted out when the two divers who went in to look for them got to it.

When the Scylla was prepared for sinking some areas were opened out, with coutouts that meant you could always follow a bulkhead and get to an opening, and others were welded up as it was deemed they would be too tempting and dangerous. Allegedly the bow was one of the latter areas, but during the sinking "show" the explosions to scuttle her blew out some of the welds and access opened back up.

I have no idea how much of this is true, I have only dived her twice and found it inordinately dull the first time, and only marginally better the second time. I haven't been back in a couple of years.

Ridiculously we have had local policemen calling for a review on allowing divers on her without this that or the other qualification. A knee-jerk reaction in a risk averse world.

 

[John_B]

This is a very curious subject to me... we are starting a Ship to Reef program soon, and I just wonder how the ship was prepared to prevent them from entering area that would allow them to get lost. One of the things that we have trouble with here locally on the Yukon is that particals in the water settle, then once a diver enters an area that hasn't been stirred in a while the viz goes down to nothing.. and thats when they get lost. I just wonder if these divers were in a place they shouldn't have been... any one know??

I couldn't begin to say how disappointing it would be if an artificial reef was "prepared" to keep everyone out because a few untrained divers (or trained divers that ignored their training) went in when they knew better. A colossal mistake, IMO.

I'm sorry for the families of the divers involved. But the fact that they had spools and/or reels with them but not used should be a wakeup call for all divers who dive on wrecks. A silt-out shouldn't be a life-threatening problem for a trained wreck diver who is following the protocols. But keeping everyone out because a few don't follow the rules seems like "grade school discipline" to me. You simply can't pretend that you can protect people from themselves. If you have input to a "ships to reefs" program I would really hope you would keep this in mind.

John

 

[stevewirl]

a wreck prenatration class can be run for all divers whishing to enter wrecks . part of the class / lecture program is tieing a penatration line . this is a thin almost piano like wire to a fixed external part of the structure that is wished to be entered . this means that in a blackout situation exit can still be aquired .

 

[Antarctic-Adventurer]

Everyone is talking here about having the right training here to wreck dive; but what training is sufficient for a relatively easy dive such as this? Are we talking something as basic as the PADI Wreck Diver Speciality? What other decent wreck courses are out there and recommended? I have only ever been through the PADI system personally...

 

[Jeff Toorish]

a wreck prenatration class can be run for all divers whishing to enter wrecks . part of the class / lecture program is tieing a penatration line . this is a thin almost piano like wire to a fixed external part of the structure that is wished to be entered . this means that in a blackout situation exit can still be aquired .

(Emphasis Added)

I've never heard of a wire used for any penetration. That doesn't sound like a particularly good idea to me. A very thin wire would be extremely hard to see, even in non-silted conditions leading to greater chance of entanglement. And, of course, unless you are carrying wire cutters, that means you could not cut your way out of it.

Penetration lines are normally #24 line and many trained wreck divers use #36 line (thicker) to hold up to the rigors of a wreck.

Another poster asked what would qualify someone to dive a wreck. If you don't plan to penetrate at all, open water or advanced open water should suffice. There are basic wreck courses that I suppose would allow for relative safe minor penetration --especially if the wreck had been "prepared" for diving.

But anything beyond that requires training and cretification in overhead environments. Gas planning becomes even more critically important than it normally is, and proper gear configuration is essential.

Jeff

 

[Doc Intrepid]

Everyone is talking here about having the right training here to wreck dive; but what training is sufficient for a relatively easy dive such as this? Are we talking something as basic as the PADI Wreck Diver Speciality? What other decent wreck courses are out there and recommended? I have only ever been through the PADI system personally...

AA,

Lots of divers have died performing "relatively easy dives".

It isn't hard at all to get completely turned around inside even a very basic structure when the visibility goes to zero. Even in a basic single compartment, with one very small entrance, it can be challenging to find that one entrance when you're not sure if you're horizontal, vertical, or somewhere in between - and you can't see your hand in front of your face. A 'braille dive' can require lots of time, lots of gas, and lots of nerve, none of which are common to newer divers lost inside a wreck.

And all wrecks rust in the ocean, thus all wrecks are capable of being silted out very easily by bubbles or clumsy divers...

The very best training to penetrate inside a wreck is cave diver training. You need to learn gas management, line/reel management, light management, dive planning, communications (in zero vis), and team coordination...among other things.

It has been said many times on this board, but (with the possible exception of a guided dive through a cut up 'artificial reef') there is no such thing as an 'easy wreck dive'. Many divers, just like these two, have died lost inside silted out 'easy wrecks'.

If you are not trained in how to safely penetrate wrecks, then enjoy them from the outside. Don't penetrate them. Ask around on this board and see how many "near miss" stories you'll hear about. Wrecks can kill even experienced divers who are not familiar with wreck penetration, and if you truly want to explore inside wrecks safely it would be prudent to find some mentors and pursue the proper training.

FWIW,

Doc

 

[Adobo]

From the outside, looking in, the overhead can look pretty simple. The vis will be ok and it won't look that scary- once you go inside and stir up the silt, the wreck can turn into quite a different beast.

Even without stirring up the silt it can be disorienting- the way back might not look like the way in. If you enter a room through one door, it might have two choices on the way out. If you turned while following a passageway or hallway, it might continue straight on the way back. All the while, the vis still looks good.

I've been silted out twice this year and both times I was amazed at how quickly it happened and how completely disorienting it was. Both times, I was literally less than a bodies length from the exit and I could not see it.

Just recently, I was leading a dive in OW, and one diver lagged behind. I turned the other diver around and we went to look for him. The vis was poor and he was just out of sight and slightly above us. We were reunited and I continued on with the dive- but in the completely opposite direction! In the 1 minute it took to find him and watch him descend to our level, I was completely spun around. Luckily, I trust my compass enough and realized the mistake- but this was in 20' of OW on what would be called an easy dive- imagine if this happened in a deeper wreck or a cave.

My point is to illustrate that wrecks and overhead environments can look safe and easy, but once inside, the environment can change quickly and without warning, which is the reason that special rules apply in the overhead environment.

I just did a search in youtube for wreck dive. The very first video it returned is a video of a couple of divers configured in open water kits penetrating a wreck off of Cozumel. I wouldn't know since I don't dive wrecks but I imagine that this type of thing is not only common but also accepted within many dive communities. Heck, even a couple of the team diving guys (I won't use the three letter acronym used to characterize their diving philosophy) have posted videos of penetrating wrecks without maintaining continuous guidelines to open water. I bet if we did a poll right now and asked just the people who posted on this thread, we would get at least 3 people who have been inside an overhead environment without the training or equipment.

It's not an excuse and I certainly don't agree with it. But I bet it is common.

As for these two divers, I have no comments as to how they executed their dive. I would think that most of the facts of this dive are not yet known or may never be known. I just pray that the rest of us can take away something that can help us stay safe while diving.