Trying Tec

[Ste Wart]

Ooh...for actual tech training, there's no "bottom" involved in our shop's programs...unless you count staying off it.

So you'd demo a valve shutdown hovering horizontally for a discover tec customer? Bear in my mind they can have a minimum of 10 dives for this experience.

 

[ScubaSteve]

So you'd demo a valve shutdown hovering horizontally for a discover tec customer? Bear in my mind they can have a minimum of 10 dives for this experience.

I know instructors that teach their OW students to perform the skills "off the bottom" so why would we treat anybody else with more experience any differently? Diving is supposed to be a limited contact activity so why not teach that?

 

[Ste Wart]

I know instructors that teach their OW students to perform the skills "off the bottom" so why would we treat anybody else with more experience any differently? Diving is supposed to be a limited contact activity so why not teach that?

10 dives!!!!!

You're meant to get the customer interested in tec, not make them feel inadequate.

 

[ScubaSteve]

10 dives!!!!!

You're meant to get the customer interested in tec, not make them feel inadequate.

So the Instructors out there that are taking the time to do (what I believe is) a better job at "instructing" and producing new OW divers with no dives that are capable of decent trim and buoyancy are making their students feel inadequate? AFAIC it is the original agency's (or Instructor's) fault for producing a diver with poor skills. Why should the student (irrespective of number of dives) feel that it is acceptable for a tech trained diver to kneel on the bottom? They need to see what is required. Not a kindergarten version.

 

[ScubaSteve]

Sorry for quoting myself

So the Instructors out there that are taking the time to do (what I believe is) a better job at "instructing" and producing new OW divers with no dives that are capable of decent trim and buoyancy are making their students feel inadequate? AFAIC it is the original agency's (or Instructor's) fault for producing a diver with poor skills. Why should the student (irrespective of number of dives) feel that it is acceptable for a tech trained diver to kneel on the bottom? They need to see what is required. Not a kindergarten version.

What is wrong with telling the new diver with 10 dives that they are going to see how the skills need to be done during real training/tech diving but explain that as a new diver they can show the skill on the bottom if required? This gives the diver something to work towards.

I recall 250 dives ago I saw a diver in the bottom of an olympic pool and they were in perfect form and just hovering motionless. THAT made me feel inadequate and forced me to work on my trim and buoyancy.

 

[Ste Wart]

So the Instructors out there that are taking the time to do (what I believe is) a better job at "instructing" and producing new OW divers with no dives that are capable of decent trim and buoyancy are making their students feel inadequate? AFAIC it is the original agency's (or Instructor's) fault for producing a diver with poor skills. Why should the student (irrespective of number of dives) feel that it is acceptable for a tech trained diver to kneel on the bottom? They need to see what is required. Not a kindergarten version.

The end result is the most important. Not what happens in confined water. If it makes more sense to kneel and show the valve drill then kneel and show it, then build on that. Don't hover in front of guy with only ten dives while you show off, it smacks of arrogance.
The Discover Tec has a minimum of 10 dives for entry, Tec 40 has 30 dives. IANTD Adv Nitrox is 25 dives as is TDI's. It is reasonable to expect the people entering these courses with the minimums to have a good level of diver ability, but not a great one. That is what the instructor is there to teach. What they get paid for in essence. Tech courses are not there to task load unreasonably, they are there to stretch the diver in order to better themselves. To walk into a class and have the instructor demand that you perform the following series of skills in horizontal aspect with a variation of only .5m is akin to military drilling and serves no benefit for the average joe diver.
The C-card is proof the person has achieved the standard, note achieved, if they walked into a tech course being able to hover flawless while performing skills, why on earth are they taking the course in the first place?

 

[eelnoraa]

Can't really see the problem of demonstrating valve drills kneeling. It's a complex skill which requires the students utmost attention. For clarity it makes sense that the instructor is not moving and can show all the critical attributes of the skill. Most of the tech instructors I've met demo this on their knees, even at the trimix level.

I am sorry if I sounded mean. But you should look for more competent (tech) instructors. My fundie instructors demonstrated all skills (one of them was valve drills) while stayed absolutely still in mid water, where there was current and surges. Not once, they have to touch the bottom for balance or buoyance. Some of these happened at depth of less than 10ft.

 

[ScubaSteve]

The end result is the most important. Not what happens in confined water. If it makes more sense to kneel and show the valve drill then kneel and show it, then build on that. Don't hover in front of guy with only ten dives while you show off, it smacks of arrogance.
The Discover Tec has a minimum of 10 dives for entry, Tec 40 has 30 dives. IANTD Adv Nitrox is 25 dives as is TDI's. It is reasonable to expect the people entering these courses with the minimums to have a good level of diver ability, but not a great one. That is what the instructor is there to teach. What they get paid for in essence. Tech courses are not there to task load unreasonably, they are there to stretch the diver in order to better themselves. To walk into a class and have the instructor demand that you perform the following series of skills in horizontal aspect with a variation of only .5m is akin to military drilling and serves no benefit for the average joe diver.
The C-card is proof the person has achieved the standard, note achieved, if they walked into a tech course being able to hover flawless while performing skills, why on earth are they taking the course in the first place?

You are apparently a far more accomplished diver than I (with all your Instructor certifications) but I feel very comfortable in saying that I feel sorry for the students that you dumb your instructions down for. This discussion makes absolutely no sense to have so I am going to exit stage right.

 

[Jaydubya]

if they walked into a tech course being able to hover flawless while performing skills, why on earth are they taking the course in the first place?

People take tec class for different reasons. In my case it was because the shop wouldn't fill o2 without a card. I had tec mentors so class was mostly a formality and a validation of the way I was already diving.

 

[norcal_diver]

People SHOULD go into tech class with competent buoyance skill. Tech class should be more about tech diving procedure, situational awareness, contigency planning, .... rather than buoyance control boot camp. It is what GUE fundie and UTD Essential classes are for. Doing a tech dive with sub optimal buoyance control is like a suicide mission. Too bad, PADI doesn't offer any classes, which emphasize on basic skills. In fact, how many PADI instructors are actually good at it. If they all go into GUE fundie, how many can get a tech pass??!!