Trying Tec

[TSandM]

I guess it depends on whether you think the components of technical diving are anything that can be taught. I actually posed this question on the Deco Stop a while back, and really got no useful answers.

I think some instructors believe that you should only be a technical diver if it basically comes naturally to you, and you don't require any actual "teaching". Others believe that it's okay for a student to begin his training without already having all the skills, and expect to teach at least some things. IF you intend to teach, you should do so. TEACHING does not consist of telling the student to do something. That approach reminds me of a riding lesson I took years ago, where the instructor decided we were going to spend the lesson on a movement I hadn't done before. So she told me, "Do a walk pirouette." I had never done one, but thought through what it was and decided how I thought it would be done. She screamed, "That's not a walk pirouette! Do a WALK PIROUETTE!!!" Theory, I suppose, being that if you yell something at someone loudly enough, they will understand it . . .

I think some technical diving is taught that way. Tell the student to do a walk pirouette, and then scathingly point out to them how poorly they approximated the desired result. That's not the way I learn. I don't think doing what my Fundies instructor did, by explaining the skill, doing dry runs on land, and then demonstrating the skill in the water, before asking the students to attempt it, is "spoon feeding". It's teaching. Teaching is a good thing, from an instructor

 

[Jax]

I guess it depends on whether you think the components of technical diving are anything that can be taught. I actually posed this question on the Deco Stop a while back, and really got no useful answers.

I think some instructors believe that you should only be a technical diver if it basically comes naturally to you, and you don't require any actual "teaching". Others believe that it's okay for a student to begin his training without already having all the skills, and expect to teach at least some things. IF you intend to teach, you should do so. TEACHING does not consist of telling the student to do something. That approach reminds me of a riding lesson I took years ago, where the instructor decided we were going to spend the lesson on a movement I hadn't done before. So she told me, "Do a walk pirouette." I had never done one, but thought through what it was and decided how I thought it would be done. She screamed, "That's not a walk pirouette! Do a WALK PIROUETTE!!!" Theory, I suppose, being that if you yell something at someone loudly enough, they will understand it . . .

I think some technical diving is taught that way. Tell the student to do a walk pirouette, and then scathingly point out to them how poorly they approximated the desired result. That's not the way I learn. I don't think doing what my Fundies instructor did, by explaining the skill, doing dry runs on land, and then demonstrating the skill in the water, before asking the students to attempt it, is "spoon feeding". It's teaching. Teaching is a good thing, from an instructor

This needs more that one LIKE!

 

[FWADIVER]

I agree there is a difference between teaching and spoon feeding, but it can be a fine line.

 

[Jax]

already did everything there except the paying $1000 part, unless you count the bill for the new batch of toys I just got.

It sounds like you think the toys make the diver . . . do you honestly think the "everything" you already did qualifies you to dive tech?

I don't want this to take away from the earlier point you made - that a tech diver should be highly involved in his/her own training by self-study and practice in the skills until they are near-flawless . . . but . ..

Self-study does NOT mean self-teaching. Self-study means reading works outside the coursework, asking questions of experienced tech divers, learning about parts and pieces outside of course work, and then working with your instructor and team members to bring it all together. If you assimilate things you saw on the web or read in a book and practice them, you may be practicing improperly and then have a bad habit to break.

Once an instructor has demonstrated a skill, had you practice as s/he tweaks you, and finally you demonstrate to their satisfaction - THEN you go off and practice on your own.

NO instructor worth his or her salt will ask you to do something that they haven't thoroughly taught and demonstrated. That still doesn't mean you can do it even after demonstrating you have the proper procedures down -- you have to go practice it and develop muscle memory. And strength.

Darn you, Dive-aholic, :cussing: I STILL cannot extend both tanks without a face-plant! hbrother:

 

[Sas]

Self-study does NOT mean self-teaching.

I am really failing to grasp why so many people do not grasp this concept. Being shown how to do something and then getting feedback <> spoon feeding. People like to be macho about this sort of thing though.

 

[FWADIVER]

I don't want this to take away from the earlier point you made - that a tech diver should be highly involved in his/her own training by self-study and practice in the skills until they are near-flawless . . . but . ..

pretty much what you said there is what i mean by not being spoon fed. as far as the toys, not really, but its kinda hard to do tech dives without the proper equipment (in this case it was for the rest of the stuff to switch to sidemount). I have met people with tech cards that I would be horrified to be on a dive or charter with, even meeting one person like that shouldn't be happening. As for my own self study currently, after getting my trim and bottle position right my instructor told me to just go dive my sidemount setup, until I am comfortable enough in it (ie muscle memory where everything is)to continue my tech classes.

 

[DevonDiver]

already did everything there except the paying $1000 part, unless you count the bill for the new batch of toys I just got.

Of course, because you've got about 1/4 the experience required as a pre-requisite to actually apply for any technical dive courses.

Ain't nobody who ever finished their first tech course and thought they were a good diver. It kinda knocks the cockiness right out of people.

Nothing done in the baby pool of rec courses shows up weaknesses, because those courses aren't designed to do that. Most rec instructors are 50% babysitters. Splash around, pat on the back, here's a shiny new plastic card! Hurrah!

Shouldn't judge tech training by that yardstick.

Enjoy your toys. Stay safe.

 

[Jax]

Have you read Mark Powell's Deco for Divers?

That is a definite work for pre-tech.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Interesting discussion, my mentor/instructor believes at the tech level you should be doing your own self study and practice, a diver that needs to be spoon fed has no business trying technical dives. I tend to agree with him.

Interesting way of looking at it ... so do you think there's any other option besides spoon feeding or self-study?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[boulderjohn]

After some frustration trying to learn to back kick, I went to the Internet and looked at several videos carefully. I got the idea of it and explained what I learned to another student in our group. We practiced together and got the hang of it. We then taught the other students how to do it.

Some time later we were all evaluated in the OW on our ability to bring up a toxing diver who was wearing doubles and an AL 80 stage. We had had a brief description of the process but no demonstration or practice. We all failed to do it well enough and our next evaluation would have to wait until the next opportunity months in the future. In the meantime, one of the students got online and got some good tips. He tried it with another student and found those tips were very helpful indeed. They showed it to the rest of us in a pool session we organized by ourselves. When we were finally evaluated again we all did very well.

If tech instruction is nothing more than a list of skills, Internet access, and a chance for students to get together to share what they learned there, then the instructor is irrelevant, and it should be a lot cheaper than it is.