Try Scuba Accident..what happens next?
- Thread starter Alexx007
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A DSD diver is not the same as a certified diver. They are not expected to have the knowledge or experience to dive safely on there own with their buddy...otherwise they would be certified. They are not autonomous divers upon entering the water and it is a grave mistake by an ninstructor or dive guide to think otherwise. The guid/instructor are 100% accountable for the safety of their clients in this type of situation. 2nd DSD or not, this instructor was complacent in how he managed his group and lost a diver, quite literally...is he legally accountable? That is up to the legal system in Thailand. Is he morally, ethically, and professionally culpable? in my mind most certainly. Whether the bay is empty or full, the guide/instructor of DSD divers is responsible/accountable for getting his clients back to the surface safely. Any reason for anything shy of that is just a very poor excuse for not being more responsible with untrained/uncertified people in their care
My heart goes out to the family and friends of the woman who died in the incident this discussion thread has been revolving around. I can't begin to imagine their pain and loss.
-Z
My heart goes out to the family and friends of the woman who died in the incident this discussion thread has been revolving around. I can't begin to imagine their pain and loss.
-Z
I have read the other thread...but your argument is here not there....you are try e one slinging mud at Ian Yarwood, it is not my obligation to make your argument/case for you. I have been well restrained in my discussion here. You have taken it upon yourself to defend the honor of your island and it's tourism industry and you are doing a lousy job of it. Your part of this discussion increasingly comes across as someone whining about something someone else has said. I imagine the lack of responses here are because you have lost your audience, or know one really gives a crap about the issue of whether the accusations about Koh Tao have any veracity.
But you should waste your time and energy continuing this discussion sensless discussion with me, instead of actively flooding the interweb with good press and a strong case that refuses Ian Yarwoods allegations....because that makes sense.
-Z
divinh
Contributor
Mud sling? That's a mis-characterization. Yarwood presented some incidents and alleges that there's been suppression of information to the public, yet at the same time uses scubaboard (public), Google (public), new agencies (public) to get his information. You say his reporting is "eye opening". Yes, it is, if you don't read Accidents & Incidents on a regular basis. You asked for stats, which you said you already "knew" existed in another thread, that refutes Yarwood's conspiracy theory, and yet you asked over and over again for those stats. Were you conveniently ignoring those stats to continue to defend Yarwood in this thread? Why do you feel the need to defend Yarwood?
I've only been a visitor to Koh Tao and I quite like it there. It's probably best that it keeps it reputation as "Death Island" so that it doesn't grow as it has. However, I do take offence with people who mis-characterize it for the sake of sensationalism.
Looking back, this whole back and forth with you is because I questioned your statement that Yarwood's posts are "eye opening" and perhaps you felt you were being called ignorant. That's for you to decide. You know of Yarwood's cross-posting of his videos (who's attention seeking?). You know the stats. You know whether you've read Accidents & Incidents on a regular basis or not.
You just keep missing the point.
The person who came up with the saying that "even a blind pig finds a truffle once in a while" surely had never interacted with you.
Thanks for the enlightening banter, but it is evident you either don't want to or can't take this discussion to a more productive or intellectual level.
It's been interesting for a short while but now its time to move on.
Cheers,
-Z
The person who came up with the saying that "even a blind pig finds a truffle once in a while" surely had never interacted with you.
Thanks for the enlightening banter, but it is evident you either don't want to or can't take this discussion to a more productive or intellectual level.
It's been interesting for a short while but now its time to move on.
Cheers,
-Z
I don't see him as negligent, just that having to have max ratios isn't a good idea. I do not know if this was a DSD or if he was guiding.
I've made mistakes while teaching. Haven't you?
I'm not ready to throw the instructor conducting the DSD/Try Scuba under the bus, unless he only had 2 people, which I believe he did not.
I feel that the agencies with 1:4 ratios for DSDs/Try Scuba experiences are negligent. I also feel that for proper instruction, agencies with 1:8 ratios are negligent. Instructors who push back against their employers for ratios are simply finding themselves out of a job, and in some cases, in a serious jam. So much for living the dream.
I have run shotgun and tagged along on a number of OW check out dives. The buddy system is often a fiction. You have the instructor who like mother hen leads the goslings. The divers eyes are pretty much focused on mother goose. They are not often not aware of other divers. So really you often have only one diver keeping track of all the students.
I was poking around solo on the top of a wreck in 50 ft of water. A class was in the area following a line. I looked over and a diver drifting up from below heading slowly toward the surface. I motioned for her to dump some air and swam over and led her back to the line they were following. We followed it back to the anchor. There the two of us waited. After about 10 minutes the class came back. As they headed up the line she rejoined the rear of the line and headed up to the boat. I do not think that any other student or the single instructor ever missed her. I know no one cam looking for her. She was in a class of 8. Viz was maybe 10 ft at the bottom, more like 20 ft at the top of the wreck.
divinh
Contributor
The instructor's account of the events (Spanish, auto-translated to English via FB), posts #18-19, is in this thread. Here's my brief summary pulling from that account:
- 40 minute class explaining diving theory, diving practices and equipment
- equipment setup by instructor, but had divers open tank, do safety checks under his supervision
- two DSD's and one OW
- after buddy check, divers went down to 1.5m and did exercises (likely mask clearing, regulator purging, etc.?)
- first dive went well
- instruction reiterated during surface interval
- second dive was 36 min
- at 14 min, 4m, Rocio (woman in incident) signed she wanted to go up. Instructor asked her why and she indicated she was having a laughing fit and he signed back it was okay to laugh into regulator and asked if she wanted to cancel (since they were next to the boat) or continue to follow. She indicated she wanted to follow.
- all three divers had 110 bar, so nothing to indicate one diver was more distressed than the other
- dive was by a buoy with max depth of 9m
- dive continued for 18 min, going away from the buoy
- upon return to the buoy, instructor asks divers if they're okay and the respond yes
- instructor looks for boat and when he turns around, Rocio is missing
- instructor asks other students if they've seen her and they indicate no
- instructor takes other students on reverse course and is unable to find Rocio, so surfaces with remaining two students
- instructor tells boat he's missing a diver and asks if they've seen bubble trails
- boat points out to a bubble trail and he descends again to search, but finds it's not her
- upon surfacing, he finds Rocio being brought to the boat by a colleague who had found her with mask on and no regulator in her mouth at 6m
- O2 administered, Koh Tao Rescue contacted, and two client divers on the boat were doctors helped in the emergency
- instructor followed Rocio from Koh Tao, to Koh Samui, to Bangkok
- instructor, two accompanying divers, and others from the dive op gave accounts to police (It would be nice to see these accounts.)
- instructor contacted consulate and family
-----
I'm only AOW, so I don't teach, but I know what you're saying.
divinh
Contributor
It was kind of a rhetorical question. I've seen the situation you've described. People do tend to be just following the guide without much thought of their buddy, unless they dive regularly enough.
I asked it because it's the kind of question someone who doesn't dive in various locales might ask. Maui and French Polynesia, for example, are mostly group with guide diving. There isn't even the pretense of assigning buddies.
I did a DSD class a decade ago in Hawaii. We had a classroom session. Then an hour long pool session on scuba. All exercises etc were done in the pool session. After lunch we did a shore dive. There was 1 instructor, there was 1 student (me), and 1 experienced New York I know what I am doing since I dive rivers diver. NY was a total cluster. Instructor was next to me in awesome viz. Great experience and hooked me on scuba.
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