Trivial Question

[Ben_ca]

Why would you need it? Just practice clipping off and on and it isn't a problem.... I think it's another solution for a non problem....

 

[TSandM]

I use a bent D-ring on my hip, so I can clip down onto it. Helps a lot.

 

[Meng_Tze]

So would a "Billy Ring" not be DIR?

I know JJ, GI3 and others don't use them, but is there anything fundamentally wrong with them as far as the DIR philosophy is concerned?

I dont see an issue with this.... but then again I am not a DIR instructor or policy maker. Lets be honest here. Yes there are situations where you probably dont want a ring like this. For instance exploration cave/wreck dives. When you dont know what you are getting into (physically) you may want to avoid having a ring stick out if you need to squeeze through a resitriction. But even the 'great explorers' dont do that often..... they would go either sidemount or no-mount (different config)

But for the majority of divers, the ones not going in to overhead exploration dives..... is this ring on the hip (where you already have a SPG and maybe some stages/deco bottles, reel) going to pose a (entanglement) danger?

I was taught to be a thinking diver as they say. This means that if I would be in cold water, with thick gloves on and have to manage several bottles, I would want to make things easier for myself. If that means a billy ring, so be it. Better to have a Billy ring than to be messing around trying to clip off, manage bottles etc.... this adds to stress, delays in runtime etc, etc..

There are those who can do it, so it can be done with a normal d-ring. Think for yoursefl and assess how this fits in your diving and how you will cope with issues.

 

[Rick Inman]

II was taught to be a thinking diver as they say. This means that if I would be in cold water, with thick gloves on and have to manage several bottles, I would want to make things easier for myself.

With practice, the standard (bent) D ring is easy. I'm sure there are all kinds of non-dir things a diver could use to avoid the practice it takes to do a skill well (not suggesting you do this, just saying). This kind of "thinking" is a slippery slope. A suicide clip is easier than a bolt snap. A retractor is easier than a clip. Keep going down the this road and you'll be e-baying your BP/W . Because it isn't about thinking up the "easier" way. Replacing a skill with a piece of different gear isn't DIR thinking, IMHO.

Also, on a side note, when I check my SPG, I open the snap and leaving it open while taking a quick glance at it so I can just easily reverse the same move to re-clip it. Arm swings up, look, arm swings back.

I actually find it even easier to clip on and off when there are a couple 'o bottles clipped on, too.

JMHO, YMMV

 

[*Floater*]

Why would you need it? Just practice clipping off and on and it isn't a problem.... I think it's another solution for a non problem....

My cave instructor (not DIR) used one of these. He had 1000's of dives under his belt including lots of tech dives and it wasn't that he couldn't clip things on and off without the Billy Ring, but he felt it made things easier.

I personally haven't felt the need for one, but I don't see anything wrong with them either. Maybe if I tried one I might like it.

 

[Ben_ca]

Replacing a skill with a piece of different gear isn't DIR thinking, IMHO.

Bravo Rick

 

[*Floater*]

Replacing a skill with a piece of different gear isn't DIR thinking, IMHO.

There's a difference between replacing a skill with a piece of different gear and choosing gear that makes things easier. For most people I think Billy Rings would fall into the latter category.

Besides, DIR divers are constantly changing and replacing gear to make things easier. New wings to make venting or holding proper trim easier, new fins to make frog- and backkick easier, cuff or shoulder dumps on drysuits to make venting them easier, Goodman handles to make holding the light easier while doing multiple things, and so forth.

 

[Meng_Tze]

Replacing a skill with a piece of different gear isn't DIR thinking, IMHO.

One could argue this for replacing a standard flat d-ring with a bent one as well..? (at least my rig came with flat rings)

BTW I still have standard d-ring's but should the need arise to change them with bent/billy's.... I would do it

 

[Rick Inman]

There's a difference between replacing a skill with a piece of different gear and choosing gear that makes things easier. For most people I think Billy Rings would fall into the latter category.

I guess it's just the, "making it easier" mindset we'll have to disagree on. There are other reasons than "easier" that I like to use to choose my gear.

 

[KMD]

My cave instructor (not DIR) used one of these. He had 1000's of dives under his belt including lots of tech dives and it wasn't that he couldn't clip things on and off without the Billy Ring, but he felt it made things easier.

Its a DIR forum. I'm not discounting his experience (which is tons more than mine) but he is aproaching his thoughts from non-DIR perspective.

There's a difference between replacing a skill with a piece of different gear and choosing gear that makes things easier. For most people I think Billy Rings would fall into the latter category.

Besides, DIR divers are constantly changing and replacing gear to make things easier. New wings to make venting or holding proper trim easier, new fins to make frog- and backkick easier, cuff or shoulder dumps on drysuits to make venting them easier, Goodman handles to make holding the light easier while doing multiple things, and so forth.

Um... none of that stuff is new or been changed recently. Heck jetfins have been around for longer then I have.


The issues that come to mind when I see the static ring, is as it is always sticking out there is a greater entanglement risk and as it doesnt swing freely, stage/deco bottles have less range of motion to find the slipstream.