Treat every dive like a tech dive

[dumpsterDiver]

I can think of a few scenarios where your configuration and approach may not be optimum. Here is one:

Lets say that you and I are diving to a depth of 100 feet with no overhead. I run out of gas and we have to do an air-share. That Atomic SS1 that you carry instead of a standard octo or a duplicate second stage will be very confusing for me. In my open water training I was trained to breath from an "octo" and in my tech class I am trained to breath from a 7 foot hose. Never in my life during any of my training have I been trained to breath from anyone's inflator hose which is also being doubled as an emergency airsource. Various questions come to my mind as I look at divers with that device. First is, if your BCD inflator is the same as your octo then they cant perform both functions at the same time. How do you use for its primary purpose (venting and inflating your BCD) when it is going into my mouth? Do you honestly believe that I will let you pull it out of my mouth so that you can inflate or vent from it? In the end, how hard is it to buy a normal second stage and hang it with you for the moment when I am about to die?

LOL.. you don't get air from it... he does.. The diver will donate his primary to you.

 

[CuzzA]

Stage 1: Ditch the splits
Stage 2: Buy paddles
Stage 3: Get an instructor or a mentor to help you get started
Stage 4: Train, train, train. And train.

Never owned a pair of splits. Only pair of fins I've ever owned are the black DiveRite XT fins. I may add a pair of free dive fins to the tool box, but I'm conflicted as to whether they would really be of any value diving tanks and they're quite cumbersome on a boat.

 

[tomfcrist]

LOL.. you don't get air from it... he does.. The diver will donate his primary to you.

Yup. Another reason to expose OW students to a variety of equipment configurations...alleviates alot of confusion down the road.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

What do serious spearfisherman wear? I know very few serious scuba hunters in Florida who don't use freedive fins, and some of them are riding scooters.

Freedive fins are more important than the type of regulator, BC, type of octopus, computer in a console (or wrist), LP or HP tank, and a lot of other details that recreational divers (on this forum) love to argue about - presumably because for many, blowing bubbles is the primary objective.

Spearfisherman are looking for functionality (and I still have not been presented with a situation where I needed to swim backwards). The efficiency of movement and the slower kick pattern are both beneficial when hunting.

---------- Post added December 5th, 2015 at 03:33 PM ----------

Yup. Another reason to expose OW students to a variety of equipment configurations...alleviates alot of confusion down the road.

Even though the type of people I dive with rarely go through a pre-dive safety check or discuss much of a dive plan; I always make a point of telling them that if they need air, take the reg from my mouth.

I tell them that I will be using the Air 2 or the pony bottle regulator (around my neck), so don't mess with either of those.

This is important for anyone who uses an Air2 to do before a dive.

 

[CuzzA]

Indeed, you don't see many hunters wearing short fins. I've heard both arguments. For, has always been they require that you kick from leg and not your feet as is possible with short fins. You have much more speed to run down your catch. More power to better handle a strong current. Against, has been if you have good technique you can still move pretty damn good with a stiff short fin. They can wear you out. They're cumbersome both during the dive, especially if line shafting, and the obvious is they do clutter up the boat deck. Of course the latter could always be cured with a fin holder so I don't put much value into that point. I will likely buy a pair. I'm pretty sure I won't be dropping $500 on a pair of carbon fiber fins though.

 

[tomfcrist]

Yup. Same story if you are using a long hose and diving with folks in "standard" gear....gotta ensure they know which reg to grab. In a perfect scenario it wouldn't matter because they would tell you they need air and you would give them the proper reg....oog events are rarely "by the book" though.

 

[Remy B.]

2airishuman, to star I'm very new to diving with limited to no knowledge, but I can give you my perspective from the site of a person new to diving like you.

Many a diving question I've pondered, not just here but in real life, has been shut down with some variation on "that only matters for tech dives." I'm struggling to understand the mindset.

What is your drive in diving ?, Looking at fish, Wreck, UW photography, relax therapy ??, that is the first point of start, from there you build your self to prepare you to exactly that, and be proficient in that.

Once you define your drive in Diving, that it can lead you to the mindset for that specific drive, Tec diving is about load task and keeping all those task under control or deal with a undesired event while keep the other tasks in check and right.

my perspective is if your drive in diving is looking at fish at 60ft, you don't need Tec mindset, you just need to have awareness and with your OW training it already show you all you need to know, the most likely scenarios and how to get out of them, if you pay attention you will see that most of the divers don't follow their OW training even one self, as per stay close to your dive buddy who is the first tool of getting you out of the problem, you don't need a Tec mindset to know that.

Some one can get a Tec Diving certification but still can be a unsafe diver, some Rec divers are safer than Tec divers.

What makes a diver better or safer than other is not necessarily the training, training is s tool to show you problems, possible scenarios you can encounter, but it actually is the common sense and your own brain that will keep you safe, a panicked diver can be Rec or Tec but is still is a Panicked diver, all the training goes out of the window with panic. it is your own mind that keeps you safe, some people take real situation problems more calmly than others, training and experience help a lot and show you how to deal with it but at the end it is YOUR mind who will or will not address the problem and implement that training when SHTF.

Most of the equipment, training, and practices that make a cave or deco dive safer is going to improve safety for looking at the pretty fishies at 60 feet. The risk of a rapid ascent from "recreational depths" is not zero. Why not think about gas planning, and carry a second primary regulator, and focus your mind on solving problems in a way that allows a deliberate ascent?

my perceptive is, you don't need gas planning looking at fish at 60ft, you need to pay attention to your Buoyancy and press gauge, and stay close to your Dive buddy.

Any dive can turn into a solo dive. Any dive can turn into a tech dive (no immediate access to the surface because of entanglement or the needs of a buddy). Many dives, e.g. wall dives, can turn into deco dives, with just a momentary loss of buoyancy control.

Will you do a wall dive if your Buoyancy is not yet under the arm ?, if you do, then it falls in the Not safe diver category, it is your own mind that keeps you out of trouble, you don't need to be Tec minded to know your self that your own buoyancy is questionable and that you will try to do a wall dive or wreck penetration or cave dive.

Gas planning have nothing to do with entanglement, in your OW they already tell you what not to do in case of entanglement and what to carry with you in case you encounter the problem, then again your buddy is there to help you or you can help each other in case both run in the same situation at the same time, but then again awareness and how your mind react to the situation, is what safe you. you already know all you need to know in your OW.

If you want to go to Solo diving, or as a Rec diver just have a contingency plan and added time in case something happen Pony bottle is the option, and common sense of course but that is different to each individual.

In other activities that have inherent hazards, the norm is to expose people to information and training that is beyond the boundaries of what they can do without qualified supervision, while still reinforcing the boundaries.

The training is done in accordance to your level of diving.

You want to learn of gas planing do a Deep diving course you don't need a Tec certification for that, you want to learn tools and bad scenarios solving do a Solo course you don't need a Tec certification.

Assess your diving site and your dive surroundings, it is you that call the dive or decide to go for it, common sense plays a big role on Assessment, Tec training does not necessarly teach you that.

If you want added safety get you a Pony bottle 19Cf is enough to see fish at 60ft, doesn't mean you now can dive without a dive buddy

You will learn that Buoyancy is the key of all type of diving, Rec or Tec.

 

[CAPTAIN SINBAD]

LOL.. you don't get air from it... he does.. The diver will donate his primary to you.

Which is what I do myself as I dive with a 7 foot hose. I have to have a conversation with every new dive buddy that in an out of air situation you want to grab my primary. I would prefer that the rec industry adopts 7 foot hose as the standard so that this conversation may become unnecessary. Not because it is bothersome to discuss the procedures but more because in an out of air situation people do what they have been doing all their lives rather than what they learnt minutes ago.

I have no problems with people donating their primary as I am rigged to do it now. It is what you are left with after you have donated your primary that concerns me more. I still have a dedicated reg in my mouth which is not being doubled up as something else in an out of air.

Another thing that concerns me both is that we all talk about finishing the dive and surfacing immediately in an out of air situation so any contraption is generally considered good for that purpose. No one talks about the safety-stop that both divers should be making before they terminate their deep dive. The 7 foot hose makes it so easy for a person of my limited experience to hold a safety stop while another diver breathes from it. Even if my dive buddy is at 15 and I am at 20 foot depth we are still air-sharing. If I am rigged with a standard sized octo then holding a depth with a buddy without a descent line would require both of us to have fairly good buoyancy where if he is hovering at 15 foot depth then I do the same. Add an SS1 to this situation and it is a bigger circus.

 

[CuzzA]

Which is what I do myself as I dive with a 7 foot hose. I have to have a conversation with every new dive buddy that in an out of air situation you want to grab my primary. I would prefer that the rec industry adopts 7 foot hose as the standard so that this conversation may become unnecessary. Not because it is bothersome to discuss the procedures but more because in an out of air situation people do what they have been doing all their lives rather than what they learnt minutes ago.

I have no problems with people donating their primary as I am rigged to do it now. It is what you are left with after you have donated your primary that concerns me more. I still have a dedicated reg in my mouth which is not being doubled up as something else in an out of air.

Another thing that concerns me both is that we all talk about finishing the dive and surfacing immediately in an out of air situation so any contraption is generally considered good for that purpose. No one talks about the safety-stop that both divers should be making before they terminate their deep dive. The 7 foot hose makes it so easy for a person of my limited experience to hold a safety stop while another diver breathes from it. Even if my dive buddy is at 15 and I am at 20 foot depth we are still air-sharing. If I am rigged with a standard sized octo then holding a depth with a buddy without a descent line would require both of us to have fairly good buoyancy where if he is hovering at 15 foot depth then I do the same. Add an SS1 to this situation and it is a bigger circus.

You should not have that kind of separation from an out of air diver especially if ocean diving. In fact you should have a firm grip on their BC shoulder strap. This prevents the OOA diver from accidently being separated from the only air source, especially in a current or surge. It also allows you, (the only one with a functional BC) to be in charge of buoyancy.

As for a 7 ft. hose, the purpose of that length is for single file air sharing through a tight restriction like a cave or wreck. In open water recreational diving it could be a liability rather than an advantage. "IMO", the better setup would be the streamlined open water configuration. 20-22" hose over your shoulder and octo on a necklace and your primary on a 36-40" hose under your arm. Both regs on elbows. If you dive wrecks and caves which would require a 7ft. hose, then yes, it may be better to dive the same setup for muscle memory.

I started with a 5 ft. hose, but since most of my diving has been and will be open water I've since switched to a 40". When I decide to do wreck diving I'll likely go back to the 5 footer. It's just too much hose for my diving right now as I'm usually a little task loaded and have lines and nets to deal with.

 

[CAPTAIN SINBAD]

You should not have that kind of separation from an out of air diver especially if ocean diving. In fact you should have a firm grip on their BC shoulder strap. This prevents the OOA diver from accidently being separated from the only air source, especially in a current or surge. It also allows you, (the only one with a functional BC) to be in charge of buoyancy.

As for a 7 ft. hose, the purpose of that length is for single file air sharing through a tight restriction like a cave or wreck. In open water recreational diving it could be a liability rather than an advantage. "IMO", the better setup would be the streamlined open water configuration. 20-22" hose over your shoulder and octo on a necklace and your primary on a 36-40" hose under your arm. .

Depends on the certification agency. Some agencies like PSAI, UTD and GUE teach 7 foot hose as a standard in all scenarios including open water. Some instructors with other agencies do so at their own initiative. I find myself inclined towards that too after I was made to do a series of drills that convinced me why short hose recreational set up may be a safety compromise. Not a huge one but still. I was asked to swim with my buddy a full length of the pool while he was breathing from my recreational length octo. The short length of the hose makes these swims a bit congested and difficult as you really have to swim very close to the other fellow. Even if you move a foot away from your buddy, your octo pops out of his mouth because those hose length is not enough. People dismiss this by saying that after the octo goes into your buddies mouth, you should not be swimming horizontally but going upwards. OK then lets try this drill going upwards and then let us do a safety stop and hover at 15 feet for 3 - 5 minutes. It is not as easy to do those when your buddy and your are supposed to be glued to each other. It can be done but it is still a dance. With 7 foot hose things become easier.