Training in your own gear

[jtpwils]

I'm a newb looking at equipment and trying to make a decision on whether to buy or not from a slightly different viewpoint from what I've read about before.

I've read many comments that suggest try before you buy, ask opinions, you'll upgrade purchases from console to wrist, jacket to wing, the more you own - the more you'll dive and vice versa and all of those are good things to consider.

The one thing I haven't seen discussed so much is this - will owning my own gear from the start (assuming I make reasonably well informed, smart purchases) help me to improve my diving skills faster or enjoy it more because I am familiar with the gear and thus make my diving experience more repetative and comfortable?

In other words, will adjusting to a different BC and it's inherent differences in terms of air volume/expansion, total weight and weight placement requirements, and different guages, etc. make learning to dive well much harder or less enjoyable?

It seems to me that if I were learning to drive, I'd rather have my own equipment and do that in the same car rather than take a sedan on one trip, an SUV on another, etc. Heck, I can drive well and I still hate figuring out where the wipers, lights, etc. are in different cars I rent.

Same question as it applies to a younger student.
TYVM,
Jim

 

[Thalassamania]

I'm a newb looking at equipment and trying to make a decision on whether to buy or not from a slightly different viewpoint from what I've read about before.

I've read many comments that suggest try before you buy, ask opinions, you'll upgrade purchases from console to wrist, jacket to wing, the more you own - the more you'll dive and vice versa and all of those are good things to consider.

The one thing I haven't seen discussed so much is this - will owning my own gear from the start (assuming I make reasonably well informed, smart purchases) help me to improve my diving skills faster or enjoy it more because I am familiar with the gear and thus make my diving experience more repetative and comfortable?

In other words, will adjusting to a different BC and it's inherent differences in terms of air volume/expansion, total weight and weight placement requirements, and different guages, etc. make learning to dive well much harder or less enjoyable?

It seems to me that if I were learning to drive, I'd rather have my own equipment and do that in the same car rather than take a sedan on one trip, an SUV on another, etc. Heck, I can drive well and I still hate figuring out where the wipers, lights, etc. are in different cars I rent.

Same question as it applies to a younger student.
TYVM,
Jim

You are right on the money. You will be a MUCH better diver after training in your own gear.

Here's the big issue: You need to select gear for purchase that meets with the approval of your future instructor. Working with a good independent instructor instructor before your class will help you to both get the "right" gear and can save you a lot of money. I'm always able to get 20% off for student purchases and sometimes as much as 50%.

 

[paddler3d]

Only diving will make you a better diver.

Having all of your own gear defiantly makes a big difference. It will be set up for you and you will tweak it to suit what you do. You will learn the gear and you will be able to focus more on the diving.

What I found made a big difference in my diving was having my own tanks. When I'd rent, it was a crap shoot. Something I'd get AL80 or AL100, LP 95's, LP 72's. All have different bouyancy characteristics. Once I got my tanks I was really able to work on my trim, and then it was a matter of learning how the various wetsuits tweak my rig.

 

[siikik]

I think that having your own gear will definitely lead to a high comfort level rather rapidly... you will only need to learn where everything is once. And you can set it up the way you like it. Each time you rent something different, you have a learning process to go through. When my wife bought gear (before her OW dives) she had my experience along with a very helpful shopkeeper, to tell her things like the difference between a jacket and a back inflate BC for example. Nothing wrong with getting your own gear to start off, but you should ask everyone you know to tell you what they think of _____ and would it work for you. Don't exclude your future instructor(s) from this questioning either... although they may be obliged to recommend what their shop sells.

The most precious decision you can make is your regulator. I find that shops only rent a couple of different brands so you really need to ask around and find out what people think. Personally, if it doesn't work for me, I'll ditch it and get another. I had a pretty ordinary octopus that I just could not stand and I ended up replacing it, however my wife has the same one and she's ok with it... I just tell her if I'm OOA, I'm grabbing your primary! (I ended up with the same reg for primary and octo because I figure I might have to actually use the octo myself one day.)

Through our trials of trying to find my daughter a wetsuit, we found that not all sizes are the same and not all brands fit the same. I even found that there is a huge difference between suits of the same make and size but different thickness. No doubt some things are going to be a challenge, but that's part of the fun of it.



Ken

 

[SailNaked]

Absolutely having your own gear will make you a better diver faster. just the BC takes some fiddling to suit you if you have to do it on every dive then that is that much less time you have to work on skills and look at stuff. weighting is different every time, the more you have in common with your last dive the less you have to mess with and the more time you can spend actually learning and not fiddling.

Check out the thread "stuff I bought that I regret" and if it applies to you then don’t buy some of that stuff. get good advice and then have fun with your new gear.

 

[jtpwils]

Working with a good independent instructor instructor before your class

I'm assuming that independent is highlighted due to the inherent conflict of interest of an LDS instructor wanting me to buy their stuff. My plan is to buy the reg/octo from the LDS that also training me and the rest from slightly less local DS or online.

I ended up with the same reg for primary and octo

This has confused me from the start - why aren't they the same as a general practice?
Or should I ask this in the regulator forum?

Also, what's regulator "tuning"? In talking with an LDS they said I could try a few different ones in the pool to see which I like and they would set up the 1st/2nd stages and tune them for me. I thought the tuning thing was LDS BS until I read on the SP website that their regs don't come pretuned.

 

[Thalassamania]

I'm assuming that independent is highlighted due to the inherent conflict of interest of an LDS instructor wanting me to buy their stuff. My plan is to buy the reg/octo from the LDS that also training me and the rest from slightly less local DS or online.

Conflict of interest is one thing, shops can (and will) only sell you what they have. Shop employees can (and will) only recommend to you what the shop can (and will) sell you. If you want a good fit between honest advice and good instruction ... go independent, newbie shop based instructor often don't know enough to provide good advice and experienced shop based instructors usually know how to sell the gear-de-jure as the best thing since sliced bread.

 

[jtpwils]

Conflict of interest is one thing, shops can (and will) only sell you what they have. Shop employees can (and will) only recommend to you what the shop can (and will) sell you. If you want a good fit between honest advice and good instruction

understood

I guess you're suggesting I find a local independent instructor, and pay him or her to help me with gear purchase.

Since I've already contracted with an LDS instructor for my OW classes, what makes researching online and at a few different LDS' and using SB as a bounce board a poorer choice than an independent instructor (other than the fact that any idiot with a keyboard can post on the SB - no offense meant to anyone)?

 

[rstofer]

I applaud the thinking behind wanting to buy your own gear right up front. i did that 20 years ago and while the BC is retired (but still perfectly functional), I am still using the regulators. The fins went south a few years back but I still have the mask. Unfortunately, I broke the snorkel. Of course, there are those that suggest a broken snorkel is a blessing. But I digress...

Independent instructors won't be selling a particular brand dictated by their employer and are free to discuss all brands. Whether they know anything about different brands is a separate question. I believe in the various equipment forums you will get quite good advice but it will always be about the gear the diver is presently using. So, what to do if all recommendations are suspect? Make your own decisions. You're the one diving the gear. Of course, you don't have enough experience to know better so your decision is suspect as well.

There is no answer to this question other than: buy a Deep Sea Supply BP/W and a ScubaPro Mk17/G250V or Oceanic Delta4/FDX10 regulator. The other gear can be just about anything.

You have already gone a step too far. You have a contract with an instructor and presumably an LDS. If so, when you show up with that first piece of gear you bought elsewhere, you set yourself up for a collision. There is a high probability it will get ugly. It happens quite often and is discussed endlessly here on SB.

So, defer ANY equipment purchases (other than personal gear: mask, snorkel, fins, etc) until AFTER the class. Your only other non-confrontational option is to buy everything from the LDS. That will be expensive!

By the way, be prepared to dump this LDS after the class if you don't buy all (or most) of your equipment from them. Then when you show up for advanced training at another LDS, you will already have your gear (as expected) and there won't be as many issues.

As to online equipment: realize that a) it may not come with a factory warranty and b) your local LDS will give you a ration of crap re: service. So, buy the stuff anyway; the savings can be SUBSTANTIAL. Use it for 2 years without service and sell it for top dollar on eBay. Then buy new stuff again. It will be YEARS before you use up the savings of the original purchase and it gives you a chance to reevaluate your selections.

And the octo is often a much cheaper 2d stage because it is only used by your buddy when they run out of air. It doesn't have to be perfect, it just has to get them to the surface. OTOH, if you go with the necklaced octo approach with a long hose primary, you donate the primary and breathe the octo. You might want to move up a couple of grades. Or you can subscribe to the "I want everything identical" approach. It will cost more but the components will be interchangeable for whatever that is worth.

Richard

 

[Thalassamania]

understood

I guess you're suggesting I find a local independent instructor, and pay him or her to help me with gear purchase.

Since I've already contracted with an LDS instructor for my OW classes, what makes researching online and at a few different LDS' and using SB as a bounce board a poorer choice than an independent instructor (other than the fact that any idiot with a keyboard can post on the SB - no offense meant to anyone)?

You are buying into a whole heap of grief, the shop is going to be really pissed.

I applaud the thinking behind wanting to buy your own gear right up front. i did that 20 years ago and while the BC is retired (but still perfectly functional), I am still using the regulators. The fins went south a few years back but I still have the mask. Unfortunately, I broke the snorkel. Of course, there are those that suggest a broken snorkel is a blessing. But I digress...

Independent instructors won't be selling a particular brand dictated by their employer and are free to discuss all brands. Whether they know anything about different brands is a separate question. I believe in the various equipment forums you will get quite good advice but it will always be about the gear the diver is presently using. So, what to do if all recommendations are suspect? Make your own decisions. You're the one diving the gear. Of course, you don't have enough experience to know better so your decision is suspect as well.

I don't know how other "independent" instructors work this, and I know that I'm kinda a special case ... I have an equipment list, if you want to use something else talk to me ... I'm easy, but if you insist on using a piece of gear that I think will impair your learning from me, you'll have to learn from someone else.

There is no answer to this question other than: buy a Deep Sea Supply BP/W and a ScubaPro Mk17/G250V or Oceanic Delta4/FDX10 regulator. The other gear can be just about anything.

I'd find any of these regulators acceptable, but I'd prefer the Oceanic Delta4/FDX10 or an Oceanic EOS.

You have already gone a step too far. You have a contract with an instructor and presumably an LDS. If so, when you show up with that first piece of gear you bought elsewhere, you set yourself up for a collision. There is a high probability it will get ugly. It happens quite often and is discussed endlessly here on SB.

Amen ... you see dive shops see their training programs as captive sales opportunities, even if that is not your intent.

So, defer ANY equipment purchases (other than personal gear: mask, snorkel, fins, etc) until AFTER the class. Your only other non-confrontational option is to buy everything from the LDS. That will be expensive!

I'd like to see you train from day one in your exposure suit with your weights.

By the way, be prepared to dump this LDS after the class if you don't buy all (or most) of your equipment from them. Then when you show up for advanced training at another LDS, you will already have your gear (as expected) and there won't be as many issues.

As to online equipment: realize that a) it may not come with a factory warranty and b) your local LDS will give you a ration of crap re: service. So, buy the stuff anyway; the savings can be SUBSTANTIAL. Use it for 2 years without service and sell it for top dollar on eBay. Then buy new stuff again. It will be YEARS before you use up the savings of the original purchase and it gives you a chance to reevaluate your selections.

And the octo is often a much cheaper 2d stage because it is only used by your buddy when they run out of air. It doesn't have to be perfect, it just has to get them to the surface. OTOH, if you go with the necklaced octo approach with a long hose primary, you donate the primary and breathe the octo. You might want to move up a couple of grades. Or you can subscribe to the "I want everything identical" approach. It will cost more but the components will be interchangeable for whatever that is worth.

Richard

A very interesting and creative approach which will work in an area where there are several shops.