Training fatality claims Utah woman in Florida

[Garth]

Thalassamania sound like you are instructing the navy seals. The fact is two minutes for breath hold is a long time and doesn't represent the majority of the diving community I would guess. I could be wrong and I myself can get to two minutes and a few seconds no more but it's not easy.

You have a lot of good points.

 

[RedCash02]

Garth, you were also probably doing recreational dives with a minimal mental or physical task load beyond what was required to keep you safe underwater and navigate. Even most technical dives are still "recreational" in the sense that they aren't working dives.

Scientific diving can encompass a lot of different things, so it would make sense to have a longer training period. There's also the issue/liability that the divers will be operating professionally under the auspices of some institution or agency. Many of those guidelines have been in place for longer than some of the scuba certification agencies have been around and the scientific diving community doesn't need to suck the money out of Joe and his wife who want certified in two days on vacation.

 

[daniel1948]

All of my students can comfortably and confidently hold their breath for 2 minutes (or more)

Is this static, or diving? I've done a 4:15 static, and on any given day I can do a 3:00 static after adequate preparation and a few practice holds. But my longest free dive was 1:20, and if I'd had an instructor with me I'm confident I could have made it to 1:30. But a two-minute active dive, while well within the ability of many serious freedivers, is pretty extreme and probably outside the realm of the practical for a casual recreational scuba diver.

If you are saying that all your students can hold their breath for 2 minutes while swimming, then you are teaching some pretty high-level freedivers. If you are talking static apnea, then probably anybody reading this could do it after a day learning the proper techniques. Of course, the kind of breathe-up I need to do for even a 2-minute static won't be available in a sudden OOA situation calling for a controlled free ascent. Which is why I always watch my gas carefully and stay close to my buddy.

 

[Thalassamania]

I was diving dry in doubles by my 38th dive... Your telling me I should have had my hand held for the first 24 dives before I went to sixty feet?

That sounds like government progress with all do respect.

I don't see how training plays into this one other than coincidence.

Maybe it is coincidence, but the numbers are there as is the required implied causality.

Thalassamania sound like you are instructing the navy seals. The fact is two minutes for breath hold is a long time and doesn't represent the majority of the diving community I would guess. I could be wrong and I myself can get to two minutes and a few seconds no more but it's not easy.

You have a lot of good points.

Two minutes is just not that big a deal if taught properly.

Is this static, or diving? I've done a 4:15 static, and on any given day I can do a 3:00 static after adequate preparation and a few practice holds. But my longest free dive was 1:20, and if I'd had an instructor with me I'm confident I could have made it to 1:30. But a two-minute active dive, while well within the ability of many serious freedivers, is pretty extreme and probably outside the realm of the practical for a casual recreational scuba diver.

If you are saying that all your students can hold their breath for 2 minutes while swimming, then you are teaching some pretty high-level freedivers. If you are talking static apnea, then probably anybody reading this could do it after a day learning the proper techniques. Of course, the kind of breathe-up I need to do for even a 2-minute static won't be available in a sudden OOA situation calling for a controlled free ascent. Which is why I always watch my gas carefully and stay close to my buddy.

The two minute holds are typically half way between. One buddy up, one down, breath hold still, but on the bottom in typically 13 feet of water. I agree, that is is not big deal and can be taught in short order ... that is why I am amazed that it is not; and that so many divers express trepidation and dismay at what I think are rather simple and basic skills.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

In my '92 PADI OW class, in the hotel pool in Kapa'a, our instructor, my two buddies and myself all took our regs out and left them out for over 3 minutes. I prevailed at just over 3:30. It was only an 8 foot deep pool, and there was no "planning" - it was just 4 guys with nothing better to do.

 

[Garth]

Well then, I'm going to change my tune.... I wish my instructor had taught me those techniques.

 

[Garth]

Okay scratch my whole conversation. I just did a 2:16 breath hold while driving without doing any workup. I'm better than I thought. :-O

 

[vladimir]

Okay scratch my whole conversation. I just did a 2:16 breath hold while driving without doing any workup. I'm better than I thought. :-O

I don't think "while driving" is the best time to test your breath hold capability.


We had a breath hold competition in my OW class, which I won with a time of 72 seconds. By the end of the class I could do two minutes, so there is definitely some technique involved.

 

[DandyDon]

Okay scratch my whole conversation. I just did a 2:16 breath hold while driving without doing any workup. I'm better than I thought. :-O

While driving a car? OMG glad you didn't pass out at the wheel. But if you text chat and drive anyway...??

 

[LilMermaid1]

The dive was on the south side of the flower garden. The deepest Mrs. Ballard got according to my computer was only 47 feet actually and the time of the incident we were at only 42ft. This was per my computer read out. There was very little current and she was swimming along fine, gave an ok symbol and had a big smile on her face looking at a turtle just before. She was right next to me when it happened and it had nothing to do with diving skill or depth. She was smiling one second and the next she was blank, muscles locked and basically gone to heaven. It was devastating to all of us that were there. In less than two minutes she was back on board and getting CPR and O2 by the amazing team on board Ocean Quest's boat. In less than 6 minutes she had Coast Guard on board with a defib. The rescue was better than by the book with the exception that there was nothing that could be done. We do not have a definitive final answer or autopsy results yet but all facts known and the preliminary expert comments were all in agreement that it was most likely an aneurysm based on all the known facts. It could have happened anywhere, instead of staring at a burger, she was looking at the most beautiful reef, turtle and coral in crystal clear waters in perfect conditions on an amazing dive.

Mrs. Ballard was released to her family after donating some organs and tissues to help others just a few days after. Her services were held earlier this week and she is with Jesus now. That caring helpful nature that led her to donate parts of her self, was the woman she was in life. She was amazing. She helped single mothers, tons of them as part of her ministry in her church. She was working on her masters degree. She helped little children breath better and she helped everyone who ever met her. She was a gift to everyone who knew her and someone I consider my dear friend. I am deeply sad about not being able to spend more time with her.

It was her dream to be a diver and she let go of this world achieving that dream.

I personally believe she was very well trained and ready for the dive. She was conditioned for the dive in advanced having done weeks and weeks of pool laps to prepare for her training. She actually beat the time for her swim tests by 8 minutes to those who were in the same class who were half her age. The other students who dove with her had no problems other than emotional at the loss of their very sweet friend.

This was really not a diving accident. I would still say without a doubt Sandy's Sunday is one of the safest and well maintained dive boats in West Palm with one of the best trained and experienced crew. This crisis was handled extremely impressively with speed and calm correct and extensive efforts to do everything well trained rescue personnel could possibly do in this scenario. Nothing was forgotten, no mistakes were made. If I was in trouble and I got to pick my rescue team it would be them!

The incident was reviewed by several agencies and the initial statements are all pretty much the same. This was a medical issue and not really a diving accident. It just happened underwater.

I care very much for Julie and Julie's family and we will be putting a memorial plaque down on the reef in her honor. Your prayers and kind words are welcome. I have tried to think of a way to blame my self in this grieving process and after reviewing everything over and over and over and over I could not find one thing I would have changed, nor anyone I could have seen doing anything differently that would have kept her alive that day.

West Palm is a very safe place for a 7th and 8th dive in shallow reefs. Open water students will graduate and do dives within their certification allowance of 60 ft. If we certify to 60 feet in the ocean or fresh water, but only train them to go to 28 feet in the springs than were not doing our job to help them start out properly as well trained and good divers. Just because our standards say 5 dives does not mean that is all we should do either.

I always believe in safety first and if I can emotionally get through this I will continue to teach using the same methodology. Any diver in my class will not graduate or dive ocean until I am fully confident they are ready. I don't mind if it takes more time or more dives or more time in the text books. There are no shortcuts in my class. I know I am covering every skill as I use strict check slates and keep extremely well documented records and notes. Any students showing any weakness get free extra attention, training and dives until they are confidently proficient in those skills prior to proceeding. I have lost money doing this sometimes but I am ok with that. I also have no problem telling a student they can not do a dive in the ocean if they are not ready. I do not believe there is any lack of training or any additional skills work that could have provided any different an outcome. Again, I believe as do the authorities thus far that this was most likely a medical condition previously unknown.

It does not help me sleep knowing that. My heart is still broken and diving will never be the same for me again. My peaceful underwater world was shattered in that moment and I am not sure if I can ever go back.

Julie, you will forever be remembered by the plethora of people who had the wonderful gift of knowing you including myself. I am grateful for every moment we spent my dear friend. My deepest sympathy goes out to the entire Ballard family. I pray for you all daily.