Training Agency Preference

[dittrimd]

Thanks for the kind words.

I do struggle sometimes to articulate my point effectively in writing and I worry about getting long winded. Ultimately I hope that sharing my experiences as a Public Safety Diver will help in some way. I know that I could never give back what I have gotten from this forum. It is a great place for us to get together and offer up any assistance. There are some truly great guys in this forum, like Gary D., Bridgediver, Blades Robinson, Yotsie, Vablackwater etc, I could go on and on.

It is a tough job and we are not always given the best conditions in which to do that job. The least we can do is help each other whenever possible.

Take Care,

Mark D.

 

[bridgediver]

Hi Blades

I'm sure you're pretty stoked following your conference but I feel that the readers may need a bit of perspective with your polls.

The SARdiver forum is maintained by Blades, is censored and doesn't get allot action. The vast majority of the posts are by Blades himself.
It is essentially a DRI forum.

The PSDdiving forum has more members that talk allot more but the numbers in the poll may represent less than 10% of the actual members. I find the info on there to be more technical in nature with not allot of talk on training agencies (which is nice).

Of the hundreds of PSD's I know and have worked with there's only a handful that view disscussion forums of any kind - even less actually engage in the discussions so I don't believe that the numbers are that accurate at all - just an opinion


But -- All this is beside the point. Mack really has 2 choices.
1) Pick the agency that seems to be popular from a biased source (we're all biased to some degree but some more than others)
2) examine each of the real PSD agencies (the 4 I already mentioned) and decide which one suits you the best. If you have specific questions about an agency its best to go to the source.

Blades - Why did you feel the need to only bold DRI and LGS in your polls? It makes it look like your remarks directed at LGS(?) -- I didn't think we were doing this anymore...

mark

 

[bridgediver]

Mark

I too enjoy your posts whether they're long or not. They're always well thought out and I see where you're coming from (even though I may not agree with everything)

Thanks for the kind word


A quick note about the 2 signalling systems. I agree that the 4 pull version is easier and faster to learn - that only makes sense because there are just 4 pulls to learn. After a 3.5 day training course the LGS system is well learnt as well. Training every other month keeps the proficiency of the signals well engrained from what I've seen.

But why learn extra signals? Without going into the reasons for each one it gives us a better/bigger vocabulary. If you have a seperate signal for each potential problem and eventuality (there really aren't that many) it reduces confussion and the unknown (both for the diver and surface). Confussion and "guessing" isn't a good formula when a diver is in trouble and alone and neither is it good for producing an accurate search
This makes them safer IMO and worth the effort to learn and use.

Mark - I can see where your difficulty may develop where you have to please a whole host of different depts. Fortunately for us all the depts in our whole province (except for maybe 1) use the LGS system.

 

[dittrimd]

Mark,

You bring up some really good points especially about how many PSD divers are actually participating in any type of online forum. I am not sure why more PSD's do not utilize what I feel is a very valuable resource.

In an effort to figure out why I took a look at my team. I have been on this board for just a little over a year. I found/joined this board when I did a Google search for some information on Public Safety Diving specifically the gear that was being used out there. I have on several occaisions brought back information to my team that I had learned on this board. One of the first standardized pieces of equipment for my team was the Quick Draw Pony bracket which was something I learned from this forum while researching pony bottle mounting devices.

During that time none of my teammates even those who very computer savy and internet junkies have come to view or join this site. I have ofter wondered why that is. We have close to 30 active divers, commanders and surface support personnel and another 30 less active yet not one that I am aware of has come to this forum even though they have been very receptive to the things I have learned here.

I have contemplated this on many occaisions. Personally I always like to be as prepared and informed as I possibly can. I hate acting on something important only to find later on that if I had done more research I would have made a different decision. Honestly I feel that some of it goes back to my boyscout days. I want to be prepared for any situation that I might face.

I think it is a combinations of factors but mostly it is complacency. Many dive teams like mine are well established and been around for a long time. They are not compelled on a regular basis to try new things or try to find something better wether it be training or gear related. Heck my team has just started making pony bottles mandatory and it was a grass roots movement. Since my first winter ice diving back in 2000 I have had a pony set up and removed my octo. More and more have done the same so that now our team makes it mandatory.

Now that the regulations like OSHA and other guiding agencies like NFPA are actually catching up with the times, team leaders are now being required to look at new things and adapt how they do things.

I have to admit I was puzzled by the BOLD DRI and LGS in Blades post. Maybe he did it was becuase the common perception is that LGS and DRI are the top two PSD training agencies by a long margin. This may be a complete misconception but I am not familiar with the other two at all other than by name. I did not take his commnets in any kind of negative manner. He was just trying to present some statistic about his agnecy.

Blades has always been a very constructive and helpful poster in my opinion. He has never hidden the fact that he is with DRI. I for one do not have problem with any agency coming on this board and posting information promoting their training and organization. In fact I appreciate the time and effort. Maybe it would be a good subforum if more agencies participated in the board kind of like the manufacturers section. I also do not have a problem with anyone posting why they like one vs. the other so long as it is repsectful, constructive and it actually answers the original posters question.

Mark, I think that your points about the differnt forums and who participates and moderates them was appropriate. You informed the other board member in a respectful way.

My guess is that Mark's assessment that only a very small percentage of PSD actually participate in online forums is acurate and so it is not worth any specific PSD agencies time or effort to post to this board. I feel fortunate that Blades/DRI does feel it worth while to post to this and other boards. I would love if Butch or Andrea would post here as well. Sure there are differences but a healthy constructive discussion about our differences can be a great source of learning.

Mark I have thoroughly enjoyed some of our exchanges about PSD Diving. I respect your knowledge and passion you have for PSD. I know that I have learned a great deal from it and sometimes we have to accept the fact it is OK to agree to disagree.

Mark D.

 

[Yotsie]

The two most commonly used agencies in my area that are used are DRI and LGS. I've attended classes and courses put on by both and I will continue to do so. I would suggest attending as many classes/courses as you can without focusing on one over the other. The goal here, at least for me, is to gain as much knowledge and subject matter expertise as I can to make our missions safer and more successful. In the end, we are all in this together to provide a service not many would consider even being involved in. Be a sponge and absorb everything you can read, watch and listen to then decide for yourself what to put into use.

And thanks for the kind words Mark D.! I too will never, ever be able give back what I have learn from this board. The vast and varied knowledge benefits everyone. I continue to look forward to more information from all of you!

 

[BladesRobinson]

Blades - Why did you feel the need to only bold DRI and LGS in your polls?

If some wondered why I would bold the references to Dive Rescue International and Life Guard Systems, the reasoning was not ill intentioned and I reference the post that was published previous to mine...

Thanks for all the suggestions. Honestly, I had not heard of LGS or DRI, but I will look into them.

Because Mack Diver was the person who originated this thread and he was not familiar with DRI and LGS I made a point to highlight these two agencies for his benefit. I apologize if this offended anyone and will try to be more cautious in the future.

Regarding the reference to the two on line forums, I do moderate one of them, the SAR Diver forum. Participation is open to anyone and one does not have to attend a Dive Rescue International program to post or participate. As a moderator, I take the liberty to make certain that the post are professional in nature and even go to the extent of trying to correct spelling errors and edit grammatical errors before someone's e-mail is sent on to hundreds of others. On the flip side, if someone posts an advertisement for their part time business, I use discretion and will reject those posts, oftentimes sending an e-mail off list to the poster explaining why.

There are two things that I work hard at as the forum moderator for SAR Diver.

1) The posts are factually correct and the content will not cause harm.
2) Participants are affiliated with REAL public safety dive teams or are industry leaders with good knowledge.

As it relates to the SAR Diver forum, members can choose to participate, sit on the side lines or leave the group. Readers can pick and choose what they read and opt out at any time. I make no apologies for moderating the SAR Diver forum in what I perceive as a professional manner. Without slamming some, many members on the SAR Diver forum are beyond the "time till re-float" type of questions.

Like most, I vow to continue helping fellow public safety divers through the exchange of information, It is a small community and we will all be safer through the exchange of factual information and resources.

Fraternally,

Blades Robinson, Director
Dive Rescue International

 

[BladesRobinson]

I would suggest attending as many classes/courses as you can without focusing on one over the other.

I wish to go on record in support of Yotsie's suggestion. I support the idea that a diver get as much training as possible.

Blades

 

[bridgediver]

Because Mack Diver was the person who originated this thread and he was not familiar with DRI and LGS I made a point to highlight these two agencies for his benefit. I apologize if this offended anyone and will try to be more cautious in the future.

I never seen it from that angle and that does make sense. You never offended me I just thought it sort of strange at the time.
Maybe its paranoia but there been so much shots taken from both sides over the years I never know when a battle is brewing.
I wish we could just all get along -- I feel we do on this forum

I agree that you shouldn't make any apologies for how you run your forum either. It is what it is and I value it for what it is (if that makes sense). Its simply a personal observation and it may effect the amount of people involved and how much they contribute.
I commend you for providing it

cheers

Mark

 

[frothchild]

Dittrimd, thank you for your posting. I two have had the pleasure of going through both DRI & LGS. And while they both have their merits, I have also had personal conversations with Pete Gannon (DRI) and Butch & Andrea (LGS), and competitive business don't make for the best bed fellows.

That said, what I have found to an interesting contrast has to do with depth of presentation verses depth of knowledge. DRI seems to be a far most polished company, but lacks depth of research and publications, while LGS has an incredible wealth of publications and knowledge, but lacks the final polish like DRI.

In the end it is about finding a company that can help create an initial solid foundation of skill and responsiveness.

 

[grumpie]

Gary, how did you do with the test?
the other old guy, grumpie.....