traditional vs. bpw

[CBulla]

I just read through this thread, especially the last few pages. I LOVE how complicated some folks have made the BP/W appear, especially for adjustment when changing configurations.

90% of the time I wear the equivilant of what Carlos (my avatar) is wearing (speedo) with my rig. When the temp gets below about 70 degree's I do something odd like wear a snorkeling vest or something to that effect to help keep in some of the WARM (I have trouble with neoprene as my shoulder has been rebuilt 4 times <7 anchors and a screw now!> and the wetsuits want to do something like push my shoulder down through the brittle scar tissue in my arm pit area and dislocate my shoulder again... so no wetsuit for me!).

I've played with taking my rig off, putting it on, etc., at the car, waters edge, under water, missing my mask, etc., and I have yet to have a struggle with it in any way. Even in tighter quarters of a small boat or orangutan cage I have not had a problem. Keep in mind, this is from a guy who has restricted movement of his arm because it just won't go certain ways anymore due to the rebuilds, I just want to be clear on that so myths don't show up about it being a tough rig to put on and take off.

I'm also amused by the dropping of air and funny rolling around comment. I figured out the second time I let air out of my BC that if I just leaned back while holding the deflator button open the air magically wanted to rush out! A little roll over as I went under the surface and I'm on my way down. It works so well I find myself waiting for my buddies at 15' (notice thats plural, I usually dive with several and I'm almost always flag tender thus the mother hen of the group) before continuing to drop to whatever depth we're diving that day.

Oh... and I have yet to find myself Face Down on the surface at any time wearing this rig. I've never rolled forward at all. Hmm.. my only weirdness was slipping down some when I first started because I hadn't adjusted it right. I still dont wear a crotch strap, but hey, thats my choice right now right? Its on my list of things to do

 

[divad]

All who have replied to this post are not zealot's. Yet the zealot's are here and they can make an unexperienced diver question his judgement[.] Don

This is a bad thing? Why?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

90% of the time I wear the equivilant of what Carlos (my avatar) is wearing (speedo) with my rig.

Do you wear the cross too? :browsmile

I still dont wear a crotch strap

I'm not surprised, if all you've got on between it and the jools is a Speedo ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[CBulla]

Do you wear the cross too? :browsmile

Naw.. no crosses.

I'm not surprised, if all you've got on between it and the jools is a Speedo ...

Lean, mean, streamlined diving machine dude!

 

[-hh]

Single tank divers who are pushed forward on the surface wearing a single tank are usually letting the wing ride up on the (no crotch strap and/or the harness not adjusted right) or just grossly overweighted with the wing over inflated. In any case these problems are a sign that something (usually something simple ) is wrong and not something inherant to the equipment.

Either that, or there's some other factor that's been overlooked.

For example, my Wing "pushes me forward" on the surface because its rearward location is unable to counteract the torque that I'm creating because I'm holding a heavy UW camera in front of me.

My UW camera's around 2.5lbs negative, and since I hold it in front of me, when I'm vertical at the surface, this negative force on a ~1.5 foot long moment arm vs. my BC's lift centriod creates a "face down" torque. This hadn't been a problem for me when I was diving with a Jacket, because its buoyancy wasn't as far to the rear.

While ~4 lb-ft of torque doesn't sound like anything significant enough to be concerned about, when we're floating we don't have any hard fulcrum to resist this torque - we can only kick to delay its onset until we eventually tire out. If you've never had a 40 minute surface drift because the chase boat went the wrong way, consider yourself luckly...perhaps it also explains why I still carry a snorkel too.

For me personally, at this point there's one last trim configuration change I can make to my Wing to make it less unacceptable. If it doesn't work, I'll go back to a Jacket next year. If it does work, I'll probably use the wing for another ~5 years...and then go back to a Jacket. For me, its no longer a question of "if", but merely "when" I'm going to go back to a Jacket from a Wing.


-hh

 

[djanni]

I missunderstood your question. Sorry about that.

With the BP resting over the lungs the weight of the tank is better distributed when you're on the surface. Walking around is easier. There's less stress on your back.

Underwater this has a different effect. Especially if you are using trim weights of some sort, i.e. tank weights or if you've added weight to the plate itself. The adverse effect is exaggerated if your remaining free weights are worn on top of your back or on your sides.

When significant weight and sometimes all free weight is moved to the top side of ones back - Exactaly where it should not be - you become top heavy and unstable underwater.

Take the weight of the plate, any trim weights and that of a full tank and move it all to the top of ones back and you become top heavy and unstable in the water.

If all that weight were hanging from your chest - think of it as the kiel on a boat which stabilizes it - it would add stability and you would have better control.

Don

 

[-hh]

... Ive dived a BC for years and recently moved to a wing. At the moment im undecided which i prefer....Im unsure if i'll still using the wing in 6 months and havent bought a new BC.

Good luck with it. Personally, I'm ready to go back in a Jacket right now. My wing also is "pony unfriendly", and it simply doesn't do what I want it to do while I'm carrying my UW camera, and a new BC is cheaper than a new UW camera.


FWIW, I do have to wonder about one thing in particular about the whole Jacket vs Wings debate:

There were a heck of a lot of lousy "soft backpack" Jacket style BC's that did a phenominally bad job of holding the tank securely.

As such, I'm personally wondering how much of this debate really isn't bladder location, but actually the soft- versus hard- backpack difference.


-hh

 

[LavaSurfer]

You forgot to say, IMO! :05:

I also like the lower price.

a decent setup is far cheaper than many jacket BCs... we can go on and on
Jag

HUH?
I've yet to see a lower cost BP/W setup than most vest BC's.
By the time I get through putting the shopping list of Alacart items together for a BP/W its not less than a Vest BC.
Point me in a direction if I am way off base here...

Now I will add a question

If Double is in the future, Maybe a year or two, Single or double if buying a new wing?

Are there doubles that can be used as a single in the interim?

 

[MarcG]

Now I will add a question

If Double is in the future, Maybe a year or two, Single or double if buying a new wing?

Are there doubles that can be used as a single in the interim?

There are wings that claim to be doubles/singles wings. However the design by nature tends to be a compromise between a singles and doubles wing. The design handles both, but is optimal for neither.

Personally, I would get a dedicated singles wing for a singles rig and dedicated doubles wing for a doubles rig.

 

[-hh]

HUH?
I've yet to see a lower cost BP/W setup than most vest BC's.

When I was looking at BP/W setups two years ago, I found that most came in at $500 by the time you got through all the little widgets to build a complete system.

In contrast, at LiesurePro right now, there's roughly a dozen different Jacket BCD's available for $200 or less, from (Dacor, Tusa, Mares, Genesis, Seasoft, SeaQuest, Sherwood, AquaLung, Cressi-Sub) nine different manufacturers.


-hh