Tourist dies in New Caledonia during a "Discovery Scuba" dive

[String]

I was holding on to a fixed object and had complete control
over my depth.

What I wanted to know is identify the sensation of limited
over expansion so as to recognize it during a panic or stress.

I am sorry that you think being prepared for anything is stupid.

MG

Its not being prepared. It is stupid.

Surely you must be aware from basic classes that due to a lack of nerve endings around the area there will be NO sensation at all of damage being done? The lining is so small it will tear and damage with absolutely no physical sensation at all.
Chances are by the time you feel something you've already damaged your lungs.

 

[MasterGoa]

Well I can confirm that you are wrong.

It is correct that there is no sensation in the lungs themselves.
However, I could very well feel pressure on the inside of the
rib cage. There was discomfort as I already told that I felt it.

It is being prepared and learning about the forces at play.
Of course, I am not saying this is a substitute for standard
safety measure. I believe in them myself, I use my lungs from
0 to 30% for this very reason as well as air consumption.

However, when I started diving, I read all the coroner reports from
the province of Québec. They stated that 90% or death were from
two causes: Too much weight and Barometric Trauma to the lungs.

The weight issue I dealt with very early on as my diving center and
proponents of minimum weights. The outstanding issue was
understanding Barometric Trauma. I was not looking for a sensation
and the plan was no more than 1 measured foot depth variation.
If I had not felt anything, I would not have proceeded further.
I did feel something.

Fortunately, I do not take offense from you calling me stupid.
It's only an internet forum. I am not over-sensitive. The real
world isn't as warm and fuzzy.

 

[Scubakevdm]

Is it possible to embolise from 15ft?

Yes.

Also, regarding the embolising sensation exploration, you may feel some pain in your lungs, you may not... but when you do you have at a minimum damaged your lungs. Most importanly, you should know that your brain is the priority O2 consumer in your body, and therefore is the first stop for the O2 rich blood as soon as it leaves the lungs. For this reason arteriol gas embolismes are especially dangerous because the buubles you squirted out of your lung are likey to get stuck in some blood vessel in your brain. So even if you can sense bubbles blowing out of your lungs, when you do you may already be screwed. Remember that your lungs are designed to alow gas to pass through tissue, not to contain gas under pressure.

 

[String]

Well I can confirm that you are wrong.

It is correct that there is no sensation in the lungs themselves.
However, I could very well feel pressure on the inside of the
rib cage. There was discomfort as I already told that I felt it.

...and by the time the lungs have expanded to that extent you've already caused some damage.

Bursting your own lungs to see what it feels like doesn't strike me as a particularly bright way of incident avoidance.

 

[DandyDon]

I suspect that English is a secondary language for you since you live north of Montreal therefore just might miss or misunderstand some statements, remarks, and smart butt cracks made here at times. Your spelling and grammar is better than many here tho.

Oh, lung, yes...

I was thinking brain...

Actually yes, I did tests and filling my lungs brings discomfort
with only 1ft ascent @ 30FFW...

But is it call a lung embolism? I though it was called something else...

If one Google searches for arterial gas embolism a large list of articles become available on the subject. I think I'd suggest this one for more comprehensive understanding...
Arterial Gas Embolism

And yes the brain can become involved...
Cerebral arterial gas embolism (CAGE) definition - Medical Dictionary definitions of popular medical terms easily defined on MedTerms

arterial has to do with the blood arteries - always a serious area. gas refers to the air or nitrox that one never wants in one. embolism refers to obstruction or occlusion of a blood vessel

A lung embolism is different: http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/diseases/facts/pulmonaryembolism.htm

Most divers don't need to actually understand those medical injuries in detail but that should satisfy your understandable curiosity.

This is what I am talking about. Is different to the previous post?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulmonary_baMasterGoaBarotrauma - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url

Quite different. From American Heritage Stedman's Medical Dictionary
barotrauma bar·Wikipedia (bār'ō-trô'mə, -trou'-)
Injury caused by pressure, especially to the middle ear or paranasal sinuses due to an imbalance between the ambient pressure and pressure within the cavity.

baro refers to the atmospheric pressure and trauma refers to a body wound or shock produced by physical injury

I was holding on to a fixed object and had complete control
over my depth.

What I wanted to know is identify the of limited over expansion so as to recognize it during a panic or stress.

I am sorry that you think being prepared for anything is stupid.

MG

That can probably be written off as an interesting idea with little merit and some danger. You may have noticed a difference in feeling but didn't really learn anything useful from it, and we all hope you don't experiment like that again. A lot of good divers died in the early days of the sport so that we don't have to repeat those experiences.

I had some goofs posting all that. sorry about any left in there...

 

[MasterGoa]

Thanks Don, those were awesome reads on the subject.

MG

 

[MasterGoa]

That can probably be written off as an interesting idea with little merit and some danger. You may have noticed a difference in feeling but didn't really learn anything useful from it, and we all hope you don't experiment like that again. A lot of good divers died in the early days of the sport so that we don't have to repeat those experiences.

I had some goofs posting all that. sorry about any left in there...

When I had my freezeflow at depth this summer, I experienced
a LOT of new things, especially a good quantity of water in the
lungs. At this point, maybe because sufficient training and experimentation,
maybe because of blind luck, I went through everything unscathed,
I still was curious about that "other" cause of death in diving.

I did not know what I would find, and was quite aware of the risks.
This is why I put myself in a controlled environment and was very
pessimistic about my findings. I did feel something and am now fully
aware of the implications of holding your breath while ascending.

However, I have no intention of strapping more weight than the
lift capability of my vest and throwing myself in the water. Do not worry

 

[vshearer]

How does ONE drown while wearing a BCD?
Especially a vest style used by nearly all shops for rental and teaching purposes.

Panic.

Has anything else on this death been reported? I still find it difficult to see this as an embolism.

And DD, I stand by my comments about being comfortable in the water. It is a much bigger problem than any risks associated with Hyperventilation leading to a shallow blackout. (and considering he called for help on surfacing......)

 

[String]

Common cause:- Panic.

Reasons to die with a BC on - if they're out of air they forget to orally inflate or dump their weights due to panic.

Lots of people are overweightd and cant maintain buoyancy. Panic means they forget to dump weights.

Leaking dump valves. Panic means they forget to inflate and/or dump weights.

As with most diving incidents, panic tends to be the thing that stops them doing seemingly sensible and simple things. That's why people should always train and practice even after certification.

 

[DandyDon]

Common cause:- Panic.

Reasons to die with a BC on - if they're out of air they forget to orally inflate or dump their weights due to panic.

Lots of people are overweightd and cant maintain buoyancy. Panic means they forget to dump weights.

Leaking dump valves. Panic means they forget to inflate and/or dump weights.

As with most diving incidents, panic tends to be the thing that stops them doing seemingly sensible and simple things. That's why people should always train and practice even after certification.

Yeah, we seldom know the whole story or complete cause of accidents here. Ours is to look, speculate on possible causes, and learn to be ready in case of any of those causes. Many bodies reported lost here on this A&I forum are found with weights still attached. I had a new BC lose a connection once on surfacing, luckily in calm seas and I just blew it up - but even that is risky. For a new diver, one fighting waves, one just caught unprepared, whatever - too easy to forget if not drilled, and I really hate for divers to remove their regs on the surface anyway. I'm usually still breathing mine when I sit down on the boat.

A magazine article comes to mind: Over confident diver surfaces, relaxes barely afloat, spit out reg to breath nature's air, Skipper& DM both see him blindsided by rogue wave, Skipper yells GO! but the diver has drown on the surface by the time the DM gets to him. Amazing how little water is found in drowning victims' lungs at times.

Keep the reg in, even if chocking, even if free flowing, even if a OOA CESA as air comes as comes as pressure decreases, even if no air comes as it prevents water in. Drill on oral inflates and weight drops. When I started drilling on that, I was surprised at how I fumbled to find those releases I've worn in water hundreds of times. When in doubt, DROP! Yeah weight pouches are pricey but upper level DAN insurance even pays for lost gear in accidents - a good thot when you don't have time to consider if it's really a life or death choice.