Tourist dies in New Caledonia during a "Discovery Scuba" dive

[NudeDiver]

The whole "discovery scuba" program, at least as done in practice from my observation, seems like an invitation to disaster; it's almost never as highly-controlled as the selling points make it out to be, and people usually jump into the water without any real knowledge of the environment and the gear.

FWIW, my wife did her first 2 dives as part of a Discover SCUBA "course" through Kona Coast Divers in Hawaii. I seem to remember her having an hour or two of instruction in the shop. She had the instructor all to herself (the other 5 or 6 people on the boat, me included, went on a group dive with a DM), and she tells me she held his hand "so hard I thought I would break his arm" the entire time.

Some places do it right, that's for sure. It's unfortunate that most people don't know what questions to ask and what to look for before signing up for such courses. I questioned them pretty well - had they told me the instructor would be working with OW students or other divers or whatever, I would not have let her sign up for the class.

I'd hate to see Discover Scuba painted with a broad brush of "invitation to disaster". I think the operators where that is true will find their disaster one way or another, with or without Discover Scuba dives.

 

[wreckchick]

What is up with all of these DSD's I hear about in open water lately? I'm not going to claim I'm an instructor, expert, or any other authority on the matter, but a DSD in open water just doesn't make any sense to me. OW students need to complete several chapters of study and some pool sessions before going into open water, how do DSD's graduate straight to open water? I find it absurd to expect a DSD student to properly operate a BC, manage air supply, monitor ascent rate, or anything else. And, once again, where was the instructor?

The Discover Scuba experience is actually designed to take uncertified divers into open water. A through course involves a video, instructor presentation and pool practice then if everyone is satisfied with the student's comfort level, they go diving!

It is to a maximum of 40' with an instructor and no more than four participants to an instructor. The DSD students do not operate a BC, manage air supply or monitor ascent rate. The instructor does all that for them.

These are try dives and after doing literally hundreds of them, I can tell you that the vast majority of issues show up in the pool, in the shallow end, with the tops of people's heads poking out of the water.

I'm not going to say that every dive I've done with uncertified people is flawless, but a keen eye and proper supervision means that any issues are quickly identified and do not become full scale problems.

I have no idea what happened with this specific incident, but to hear the program discussed as 'an accident waiting to happen' is unfair.

Rachel

 

[I Dive]

I think the DSD idea is great. If a person is interested in diving, but for whatever reason isn't sure how they would react breathing on SCUBA or if they would be comfortable or whatever, what better way to find out than a DSD? It just needs to be recognized for what it is and conducted accordingly-It's a way for someone with very little training and no experience to experience being on SCUBA. I was surprised to see Wreckchick's info about OW being allowed and max depth of 40 feet, but I checked with a friend who is an instructor and he confirmed it's correct. I think the people who feel DSD is an invite to disaster, accident waiting to happen, or whatever else do need to keep in mind that with a crappy instructor any level of SCUBA training could be considered that.

 

[DandyDon]

I would expect that standards with US operators are generally better than in some parts of the international tropical world, and I'd trust Scubakevdm or Wreckchick with my own family. In the tropical world tho, there are usually less safeguards to the tourist who so often adopts a carefree attitude and more risks are often taken. I really think that these news stories are but a minority reflection of actualities as so many tourist dependent locations not covered by US controls are also very efficient at covering up accidents and blocking any news stories not good for business. Be careful out there.

 

[scubafanatic]

...I've never been a big fan of 'discover-scuba' sessions which immediately drop one in blue-water without first progressing through class-room/gear familiarization/shallow end of pool/deep end of pool FIRST ! While fun, this sport can kill you in an instant if you do the wrong things.......the laws of physics (embolism/N2 loading) are unforgiving...and scuba is conducted in an 'alien' environment, much like an astronaut in deep space, where our gear IS life support, unlike any above water sport......so I think it's foolish to short-cut the process too much...there is a minimum level of understanding/competence that's absolutely required...and it's irresponsible to think otherwise.

 

[wreckchick]

I would expect that standards with US operators are generally better than in some parts of the international tropical world, and I'd trust Scubakevdm or Wreckchick with my own family. In the tropical world tho, there are usually less safeguards to the tourist who so often adopts a carefree attitude and more risks are often taken. I really think that these news stories are but a minority reflection of actualities as so many tourist dependent locations not covered by US controls are also very efficient at covering up accidents and blocking any news stories not good for business. Be careful out there.

Thanks, DD!

R

 

[vixtor]

I don't like discover scuba at all. Scuba is a complex activity when looking at it from the outside, and making it so easily accesible is not the right way to do it.

First, it requires good knowledge of some physics and biology details. I have noticed that a lot of people forgot or never really understood those things, and for them scuba is hard to understand. The best proof for this is the way scuba agencies explain all those things that should be just references to things you already know (like the physics laws for example). In scuba manuals they are explained in dumber words than in school books. Still, for some this learning is tough (as I saw on many people who get to dive without a good understanding of basic things).

Then it is training and practice. You need to practice, to form fast reflexes and most important, to do things in a correct and safe manner. This requires time.

And most important, as an umbrella over all, you need determination. You have to want to do it, enough to be willing to work for reaching this objective. You have to deserve it in the end.

In my mind, discover scuba is reflected perfectly by one of my work colleagues. He heard me many times talking about dives and once, during a vacation, he ignored what I told him about how should he start scuba if he really wants. He did a discover scuba dive. For him, I guess it was nice, he came back happy. But his words were memorable: i was that deep that my ears hurt. How deep? about 6 meters. I was amazed - he was never able to equalize, but had no knowledge that what he feels is wrong. He did what he understood of the valsalva maneuver, but probably too late and it had no effect. Still, he dived, thinking about the huge ammount of water crushing him, and just wondering why I never told about how painful diving is. This should never happen to a newcomer - a miserable dive just because he is lacking knowledge.

And the safety issue - just imagine such a diver gets his mask blown away at 5-6 meters. Guess what he will do. I just envision him keeping his breath and bolting to surface, to escape. There is a certain possibility to end in a nice coffin after that.

In my opinion, you should not do this unsafe, just for curiosity. If you really want it, take a class, learn the proper way. Abandon if you dislike it. Create a refund program for such eventuality. But don't allow somebody who is not willing to work his way to dive in a discover scuba. You risk to lose it if the dive is miserable, even if he would still enjoy a proper dive.

 

[String]

What is up with all of these DSD's I hear about in open water lately? I'm not going to claim I'm an instructor, expert, or any other authority on the matter, but a DSD in open water just doesn't make any sense to me. OW students need to complete several chapters of study and some pool sessions before going into open water,

No they dont. Assuming its PADI a DSD completes EXACTLY the same as an OW course before being allowed in open water for the first time. That's a bit of mask clearning, a bit of reg clearning and a few other things. That's taught in combined then its into open water. Its done hundreds of thousands of times per year around the world without incident.

Last place i worked doing literally hundreds of DSDs it was about 2hrs from start to finish. That included the awful cheesy DVD, a 20 min or so lesson, confined in a pool to do the skills then straight into the sea from there for a 6m max depth dive. If they wanted to do a follow up they could come back in the afternoon and go to 12m off the boat if deemed up to it.

I find it absurd to expect a DSD student to properly operate a BC, manage air supply, monitor ascent rate, or anything else.

They dont. Just like an open water student who also cant be trusted to do any of that in their first time out its all done by the instructor.

And, once again, where was the instructor?

Probably right there but sometimes **** just happens. You can brief all you want but if someone does something really stupid they can still hurt themselves regardless of who is there. You can minimise but never eliminate that.

Despite what some people pretend SCUBA at this level is an extremely simple activity to learn and perform. Its not rocket science - it doesnt need a massively long and complex training programe.

 

[String]

In my opinion, you should not do this unsafe, just for curiosity. If you really want it, take a class, learn the proper way. Abandon if you dislike it.

Can't speak for other agencies but PADI DSD is identical to the first theory, first confined and first open water lesson of the full course so what exactly is the difference you claim in the training?

 

[NudeDiver]

The DSD haters strike me as rather elitist. "Do it right, do the OW class and then if you don't like it, abandon it." That's really not a positive attitude toward welcoming potential new divers. While I understand safety is first, I just don't think it's true that you can't do DSD dives in a safe fashion. See my previous post for why.

This thread reminds me of skydiving. I had always wanted to go sky diving, but I wasn't going to go tandem or static line. It was freefall or nothing. I finally found an outfit that would allow freefall jumps as a first jump. Went through a "ground school" of several hours - and by the end of the day, I was going sky diving. Didn't really jump out of the plane. Had to slowly exit the side of the plane via a small door, go out and stand on the wheel strut under the wing - and then just "let go" - sort of falling backward and watching the plane fly away (a somewhat weird feeling, I can assure you) - esp. when you're at 12,000 feet. Anyway - seems like the potential for problems here are a lot more than a shallow OW dive holding hands with an instructor - and yet, it didn't seem unsafe to me at all. I don't think properly conducted DSD dives are unsafe either.