Too much current and a negligent dive master??

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Is a "ripping current" a common condition on the Spiegel Grove? I was under the impression that the site was relatively mild, and suitable to less experienced AOW divers.

This is one wreck I have on my list, but if that's a common condition, it will be moved down farther until I have more experience.
 
Go with the latter option, the current can be quite strong (think flag and breeze).
 
Right. Bumping on my list. :: sighs ::

Guess I'll have to do the Doria next then. (j/k).
 
IMHO, the procedure of the DM was right. In first plase (as already stated by someone else) If the first DM had tryed to rescue her, he would not be albe to swim back, and then there would be 2 divers in danger. In a rescue diver training you learn that if you are the most experienced rescuer on the boat and have others, you have to assign jobs and work like a team. The wrong things i see are the fact that you were diving beyond your training and that the DM should have warned you not to jump into the water since there was a diver in trouble.
 
V-Erthal:
If the first DM had tryed to rescue her, he would not be albe to swim back, and then there would be 2 divers in danger. In a rescue diver training you learn that if you are the most experienced rescuer on the boat and have others, you have to assign jobs and work like a team.
Not sure if they teach it this way in diving rescue training (will do the course sometime this summer), but in my lifeguarding training, they taught that you might not be able to rescue someone in the water (ie could still provide shore assistance) if there are obvious signs that you could both get in trouble - ie. better for one to be in trouble than you jump in a two get in trouble - that seems sensible, but kind of heartless, i never did get in that situation where it was too dangerous though. I probably havent phrased that very well, but i really should get back to work and have other things to think about at the moment.
 
Reefraff (and actually anyone else that wants to comment), this is not a flame as i know jack about such things, but what should have happened then?

Fair question and no offense taken. It's hard to know what should have happened because there are many details that we don't have. As a general rule, however, I would consider the situation as described to be a real emergency: we're looking at an inexperienced diver getting blown away in moderate seas where there is a lot of other traffic - there are 8 mooring balls on the SG, as I recall, and they're busy.

The two big concerns are that the diver will panic or that she will get run over - she's not going to get lost in these kinds of seas. An experienced diver isn't likely to panic and will (hopefully) have the equipment and presence of mind to make her presence well known and certainly should be able to establish positive bouyancy and float safely on the surface until somebody can come and retrieve her. With an experienced diver, this is more of a "Free beer for everybody" nuisance than a battle stations emergency, but that's not the what was going on.

Last choice should be to move the boat. That requires getting the divers out of the water (or worse, sending them to the bottom where they're out of the way) and that takes a lot of time. A fast response is almost always better, so getting a line to the diver is the bestest solution. The decision to swim the line to her makes sense, given her inability to land on top of it when it was beneath her feet and the vagaries of wind and current. Fortunately, there were two DMs available, one to stay and attend to the divers in the water and the other to effect the rescue. I don't think it much matters which one did what, but I like the idea of the tasks being distributed like they were - the divers in the water are familiar with the DM that's with them and the DM on the boat has the edge on being able to see exactly where the lost diver is until he hits the water. Especially if the DM on the boat was not yet geared up, he's the one that should have made the rescue since he wouldn't be encumbered by gear.

As UP pointed out, one of the things we don't know is whether or not there was a long dragline already out. If there wasn't, the DM's should both be taken out back and whomped on. A heap of trouble might have been avoided.

Sending the divers to the bottom as a way of clearing the props is effective but presumes that they are safe and will remain so until the boat can effect a rescue and return to the ball. Again, given the inexperienced nature of at least some of the divers on the boat and the conditions, this would seem to be a stretch. As it turns out, this wasn't just a top current that they were fighting and conditions on the bottom forced an early turn of the dive, a worst case scenario for this group. What would have happened if all these divers tried to return to the surface, only to find the boat gone? Oops. Would they have had the skill and presence of mind to hang onto the mooring bouy anchor line in 30 feet of water until the boat returned and safely hooked in? Scary assumption, given that the dive was turned because the current was too ferocious.

I've only been on the SG once so I can't say what conditions are normally like, but we had a pretty stiff breeze. The current was at least a couple of knots on the surface and not much better on the bottom, strong enough that if you let go of the line you were going sailing and everyone was careful to keep to the lee while on the bottom. Someone commented that it was the kind of current that makes everyone look good - fluttering in the current as you clutch the line means you can't help but have a nice prone position and nobody looks like the typical recreational divewalker.

I'm sure if you think about it, you know the answer to the question you asked about whether the other divers should wait it out while a recovery is effected. Of course you should. Lots of things are different in a slight current, even if the diver is having a hard time swimming back to the line. It isn't a light current if the lost diver is 200 yards gone in the time it takes to react and everyone should have stayed on the boat so that the option of moving the boat quickly could be preserved. This is why it's an advanced dive and why newbies should avoid it. Somewhere along the line it's become popular to think that the only difference between a new diver and an advanced diver is the gullibility to part with a few dollars for another stupid class, but nothing could be further from the truth. Advanced OW divers have more experience and have spent another 5? dives working with an instructor, learning new things and honing old skills. It may not be much, it may not be enough, but it does make a difference.

Lots of stuff we don't know about this incident, so much of this is just guesswork on my part. That said, the big lesson from this dive would be to remember to dive within the limits of your training and experience and to avoid trust me dives at all costs. When someone says, "Advanced Open Water required," the assumption should be that they mean it. Safety in diving should be a cold, hard thing and requires all of us be willing to sacrifice the dive on a moments notice.
 
reefraff:
I'm sure if you think about it, you know the answer to the question you asked about whether the other divers should wait it out while a recovery is effected. Of course you should. Lots of things are different in a slight current, even if the diver is having a hard time swimming back to the line. It isn't a light current if the lost diver is 200 yards gone in the time it takes to react and everyone should have stayed on the boat so that the option of moving the boat quickly could be preserved. This is why it's an advanced dive and why newbies should avoid it. Somewhere along the line it's become popular to think that the only difference between a new diver and an advanced diver is the gullibility to part with a few dollars for another stupid class, but nothing could be further from the truth. Advanced OW divers have more experience and have spent another 5? dives working with an instructor, learning new things and honing old skills. It may not be much, it may not be enough, but it does make a difference.
Thanks for the (long) answer - you would rival me in emailing (many pages spew from my keyboard each day)!!

Although i see it as reasonable for the divers to stay aboard and boat to move, i guess my question arises from the boat dives i have done, mostly reef drifts around SE FL, but also a couple of wrecks. Each time the DM dropped in found the wreck and tied off the buoy, then the capt waited a few minutes, circled and let us all step off and drift onto the buoy with tag line. The DM and capt both said that if we missed the buoy (by some really bizarre inability to swim across the current to steer ourselves to it) that the boat would come around and pick us up after all the divers were off. Granted that although there are plenty of boats out there, they arent in such close proximity to each other as they would be on SG (8 buoys, 2-300ft long ship?). So the boat wasnt tied off to a buoy, but we were dropped near it and drifted onto it - hence havent had that experience yet and the question.
 
Reefraff,

Well, it's been a while since I have been lectured but I'm willing to let it pass.

First, she did miss the mooring line. We all went off the bow and were instructed to grab the mooring line.

Second, we recognized our limitations which is why we took a DM in the first place and no, we didn't expect him to be our personal assistant or teacher, simply to guide us on the wreck. Lastly, with respect to this point, I was the only open water diver the other two are AOW.

Third, I never considered going after her because the on-board DM "had" her (so to speak).

Lastly, we were briefed by the DM with respect to the dive profile but no one was aware how strong the current actually was until we were in the water as I stated earlier. Further, everyone in a position to know thought the current would abate on the wreck but it didn't. We went down the mooring line to about 50 feet, stood on the hull for a couple of minutes and then decided to abort.

I apologize for quoting rescue and I realize that Lynn was in a for real rescue situation. That said, she kept her head and simply waited for the on board DM and the line.

The point of the post was to talk about DM protocol. If you need to feel important than please, lecture away.
 
PBR, not wishing to speak for Reefraff, there are many sides to this story, its not just the DM who had a responsibility or things which they needed to attend to, a critique of the general dive (from what few details you provided - unless you have more?) would suggest that it wasnt just the DM who was lacking - in fact they had a back-up in case this thing happened. Even though one of your buddy team had got swept away you carried on with the dive and also although not saying the AOW stands for anything much more than basic OW, do you have much experience? Although i dont have much diving experience, common sense says that if your buddy gets washed away you wait for them on the boat (or do something about them being washed away if you can). I can see hiring a DM as you hadnt been on the wreck before or at least listening intently to the pre-dive briefing (i am sure you did, but that should hold nuggets of useful info for the dive), but had you done much other diving around that area in strong currents?

Although some posts come across kind of strong and lecture-like, most people are trying to be helpful, but pointing out weaknesses (hopefully in a constructive way) where they see them in the hope that you can analyse your own dive and learn from it.

I hope you reread the post and try to take the positives out of it rather than seeing it as an attack.
 

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