I think I's got an issue with hijacking!!!
Hey how come I didn't get no "Thanks" :depressed:
To weight or not to weight
- Thread starter BettyRubble
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Hey how come I didn't get no "Thanks" :depressed:
OP
BettyRubble
Contributor
Take a look at this thread, some good information in it: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ad...ons/286707-lets-talk-about-balanced-rigs.html
Bullswan
Guest
This is maybe the most important issue in scuba...
Having said that, I wonder why more instructors don't emphasize the calculations during OW class. I also think it might make sense for tables for different tanks (sizes and manufacturers) to be readily accessable when you rent tanks. (I'm printing out and laminating one to keep in my bag for when I go on trips and need to rent tanks.)
As I recall, the set-ups were all put together for all of us while we were in class based on our stated body weight. The weight belts all loaded for us. Maybe in an effort to save time?
I am a big believer in getting your own BC (really all your own equipment) as soon as possible so that you aren't be-deviled with using rental stuff and all the variations that come with using different equipment each time you dive.
I also wish that my instructor had put us in the pool and ocean with an AL 80 (most common?) tank with 500lbs in it to give us a better starting spot than "10% of body weight". I watch people struggle all the time on chartered boat dives when the dive master is handing out weights? "How much do you want?" "Gee, I don't know, how much do you think I need?"
Do you think it is easier or harder (or the same) with dry suit vs. wetsuit?
Having said that, I wonder why more instructors don't emphasize the calculations during OW class. I also think it might make sense for tables for different tanks (sizes and manufacturers) to be readily accessable when you rent tanks. (I'm printing out and laminating one to keep in my bag for when I go on trips and need to rent tanks.)
As I recall, the set-ups were all put together for all of us while we were in class based on our stated body weight. The weight belts all loaded for us. Maybe in an effort to save time?
I am a big believer in getting your own BC (really all your own equipment) as soon as possible so that you aren't be-deviled with using rental stuff and all the variations that come with using different equipment each time you dive.
I also wish that my instructor had put us in the pool and ocean with an AL 80 (most common?) tank with 500lbs in it to give us a better starting spot than "10% of body weight". I watch people struggle all the time on chartered boat dives when the dive master is handing out weights? "How much do you want?" "Gee, I don't know, how much do you think I need?"
Do you think it is easier or harder (or the same) with dry suit vs. wetsuit?
hg frogman
Contributor
From my experience as an instructor, many divers are overweighted because they don't know how to descend at the very beginning of the dive. So they carry enough weights to sink like a stone. That makes buoyancy much harder to master. And proper descent is not often taught during OWD (or even AOWD) courses.
BettyRubble adresses this issue from her OP but she states that descent head down ("duck") or horizontal are easier in that respect.
Well, the traditional descent "feet down" can be as efficient, provided you do it correctly. It means :
- relax at the surface (if you're stressed, your breathing adds 2 or 3 kg of buoyancy!)
- STOP finning !!!! you want to go down, don't you ? water is your friend !
- completely deflate your BCD !!! it takes some time, and can be tricky with some dump valves, so rise your left shoulder if you're dumping from your inflator dump valve
- exhale quickly and strongly, and keep on like this
- inhale only when you equalize your ears (every half meter) and that inhaling should be small and shouldn't take long otherwise you go up again ! But of course don't damage your ears : if it takes time for you to equalize your ears, maybe it's worth training specifically on equalization with your instructor before you consider training on descent
- when you're 3 meters deep it's done, you can put yourself horizontal and fin.
The difficulty here (apart from unconscious mistakes like keeping on finning upwards) is to synchronize the descent with efficient ears equalization, so you don't inhale too much while equalizing, equalization goes well and fast, and then you don't go up and down like a "yoyo" ! So proper and efficient ears equalization is one key to buoyancy too ! And it's not so instinctive, far from it, it has to be taught and learned properly.
Deep and long exhaling is not so familiar at the beginning, and often requires training too.
You can make your "feet down" descent easier at the beginning either :
- by pushing water upwards with your hands palms once you begin to be underwater
- by giving one or two fin strokes to rise your shoulders out of the water and then exhale quickly and briskly, it makes you sink. Inhale then gently every half meter or so, while equalizing your ears ; otherwise keep on exhaling.
Both tricks above can be combined.
For the safety stop at the end of the dive, consider that the shallow area 0-5 meters is a bit "touchy" and do take care of how deep you are (ie stay at 5 or 6 meters, a computer may help a lot) and take care of your breathing as well. It's easy to notice when we go down (our ears tell us) but not so easy when we go up, so we have to watch out !
If you're really afraid of the safety stop you can take one extra kilo, you'll be slightly overweighted but that's OK. More than one kilo overweight is already too much and is a PITA for buoyancy. (The rules told by some agencies can sometimes lead to a bit too much lead BTW).
Also, to avoid being weighted a lot (more lead means more difficulty to control the buoyancy, everything else being the same), take the thermal insulation needed by the dive, but no overkill. If the water is warm but the wind chilly, there are other solutions than a drysuit to remain warm out of the water.
Disclaimer: this advice on internet is not sufficient for learning diving. Diving has to be taught in the water, by a qualified instructor.
BettyRubble adresses this issue from her OP but she states that descent head down ("duck") or horizontal are easier in that respect.
Well, the traditional descent "feet down" can be as efficient, provided you do it correctly. It means :
- relax at the surface (if you're stressed, your breathing adds 2 or 3 kg of buoyancy!)
- STOP finning !!!! you want to go down, don't you ? water is your friend !
- completely deflate your BCD !!! it takes some time, and can be tricky with some dump valves, so rise your left shoulder if you're dumping from your inflator dump valve
- exhale quickly and strongly, and keep on like this
- inhale only when you equalize your ears (every half meter) and that inhaling should be small and shouldn't take long otherwise you go up again ! But of course don't damage your ears : if it takes time for you to equalize your ears, maybe it's worth training specifically on equalization with your instructor before you consider training on descent
- when you're 3 meters deep it's done, you can put yourself horizontal and fin.
The difficulty here (apart from unconscious mistakes like keeping on finning upwards) is to synchronize the descent with efficient ears equalization, so you don't inhale too much while equalizing, equalization goes well and fast, and then you don't go up and down like a "yoyo" ! So proper and efficient ears equalization is one key to buoyancy too ! And it's not so instinctive, far from it, it has to be taught and learned properly.
Deep and long exhaling is not so familiar at the beginning, and often requires training too.
You can make your "feet down" descent easier at the beginning either :
- by pushing water upwards with your hands palms once you begin to be underwater
- by giving one or two fin strokes to rise your shoulders out of the water and then exhale quickly and briskly, it makes you sink. Inhale then gently every half meter or so, while equalizing your ears ; otherwise keep on exhaling.
Both tricks above can be combined.
For the safety stop at the end of the dive, consider that the shallow area 0-5 meters is a bit "touchy" and do take care of how deep you are (ie stay at 5 or 6 meters, a computer may help a lot) and take care of your breathing as well. It's easy to notice when we go down (our ears tell us) but not so easy when we go up, so we have to watch out !
If you're really afraid of the safety stop you can take one extra kilo, you'll be slightly overweighted but that's OK. More than one kilo overweight is already too much and is a PITA for buoyancy. (The rules told by some agencies can sometimes lead to a bit too much lead BTW).
Also, to avoid being weighted a lot (more lead means more difficulty to control the buoyancy, everything else being the same), take the thermal insulation needed by the dive, but no overkill. If the water is warm but the wind chilly, there are other solutions than a drysuit to remain warm out of the water.
Disclaimer: this advice on internet is not sufficient for learning diving. Diving has to be taught in the water, by a qualified instructor.
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hg frogman
Contributor
Bullswan,
Rules like "10 % of your body mass" are grossly inaccurate. Think of a US Navy Seal at 6'2"/200 pounds and a short but large diver at 5'4"/200 pounds, they'll obviously won't need the same amount of lead.
So note on your logbook how much lead you've been using, which tank you had, which suit (type and thickness), which kind of water (fresh or salty), which reg, etc. And also your own bodyweight at this time (if we lose 20 pounds that's usually bodyfat and that means 6 or 7 pounds of lead less on our belt). These notes will be useful for your next vacations, it will give you (or the DM) an idea of how much you need (beware, some DMs or even instructors don't care much and won't hesitate to overweight their customers so they don't have to teach them how to descend).
The ONLY way to be correctly weighted is the weight-check as told by most agencies. Begin with the smallest amount of lead you can think of, add some weights if necessary, until it's fine. This check is usually done with a full tank. Somes agencies recommend then to add 4 pounds to alleviate for less air at the end of the dive. But if you have already a good buoyancy control and you know how to descend, these 4 extra pounds can be too much. So my advice would be to add something between 0 and 4 pounds according to your experience and the kind of dive you'll be doing (for drift dives it's often good to be 2 pounds overweighted). But many unexperienced divers, even already OWD (and sometimes more) certified, will need more than those 4 extra pounds, in fact they still have to learn how to descend.
Weight calculations are generally not covered in great detail during OWD course because it takes already a HELL OF A TIME to teach properly all the skills & lessons of this course in only 5 days !
But they should be part of any "buoyancy control" specialty or program.
Rules like "10 % of your body mass" are grossly inaccurate. Think of a US Navy Seal at 6'2"/200 pounds and a short but large diver at 5'4"/200 pounds, they'll obviously won't need the same amount of lead.
So note on your logbook how much lead you've been using, which tank you had, which suit (type and thickness), which kind of water (fresh or salty), which reg, etc. And also your own bodyweight at this time (if we lose 20 pounds that's usually bodyfat and that means 6 or 7 pounds of lead less on our belt). These notes will be useful for your next vacations, it will give you (or the DM) an idea of how much you need (beware, some DMs or even instructors don't care much and won't hesitate to overweight their customers so they don't have to teach them how to descend).
The ONLY way to be correctly weighted is the weight-check as told by most agencies. Begin with the smallest amount of lead you can think of, add some weights if necessary, until it's fine. This check is usually done with a full tank. Somes agencies recommend then to add 4 pounds to alleviate for less air at the end of the dive. But if you have already a good buoyancy control and you know how to descend, these 4 extra pounds can be too much. So my advice would be to add something between 0 and 4 pounds according to your experience and the kind of dive you'll be doing (for drift dives it's often good to be 2 pounds overweighted). But many unexperienced divers, even already OWD (and sometimes more) certified, will need more than those 4 extra pounds, in fact they still have to learn how to descend.
Weight calculations are generally not covered in great detail during OWD course because it takes already a HELL OF A TIME to teach properly all the skills & lessons of this course in only 5 days !
But they should be part of any "buoyancy control" specialty or program.
i dont drop weight belts ..... in an emergency i would drop it such as only part of my weight is off loaded rether go up 4 lbs light than 20 lbs light. sorry for the comfusion.
with a 2-3 lb pouch i can leave it on the wreck as i get lighter i go back and pick it up. less weight at the start less air in the bc and i have weight at the end of the dive to comp for lighter tank.
here is an example i have 20# weight on am 6 lb neg with full tank. i have 10 integrated 6 in weight belt and 4 in pouch.
i dive to the wreck and leave the 4 lb pouch at the line. i am now 2 lb heavy and i need less air in the bc to be neutral. depth changes are easier because of less expanding air in the bc. after a while i use enough air that i am getting light probably after doing the bottom of the wreck 15 feet below the main deckfor 10-15 minutes. i put the pouch on and i am now 4 heavy and i comp the bc acordingly. i continue the dive untill i dont need air in the bc and i am about 5-600 lb in the tank i go to safety stop and then up. this extends my time perhaps 20% at depth. if the wreck is basically at the same depth nothing is gained. on a sunnked navy ship the keel is on the botom the deck is 20-30 abocve that and superstructure above that. that is a lot of venting and blowing when you are 6 heavy as compared to being 2 heavy. 5-10 ft depth change is a lot when you have a lot of air in the bc.
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Low Pressure
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I read ur post & want to say many thanks me & my wife are in the process of taking our scuba lessons ,we live in the United States ( Denton,Tx) our cert. will be thru " Naui" . Anyway just wanted to say we enjoyed your experiences and notes we look forward to the moments where we can write about our own drives .
Thx for sharing
Thx for sharing
your welcome i am in the beaumint area . Oerhaoas we do clear springs or southern ok or mamoth blue lagoon someday. One thing i found here is that no one has it right but for themselves. Every situation calls for a mod is method. I am glad my method for my situation cought your intrest.
Regards
Bogie
Contributor
Excellent suggestions. I too have been serious about improved weighting and bouyancy control. I notice sometimes being too serious hinders consistent, smooth bouyancy control. I am learning to relax and go with the flow. Over correcting takes energy, air and effort. I notice that when I relax and delay air adjustments and adjust by breath control and angle of swimming I do much better in air consumption and ease of dive. I don't worry about it, feel confident that I can always swim a little up or down, breath a little deeper or less and it works out. My biggest discovery is to become aware of your body in the water. It takes a while to feel subtelties of your body through the water. It is a bit of an art. Thinking and knowing what you are suppose to do is different than actually experiencing and doing it. That is what great about diving is that it is a total experience. Its all about having fun and having a great diving experience.
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