To Critique or not to Critique

[CD_in_Chitown]

Lets start here...

Since Howarde left the thread perhaps you could PM this to him and let folks discuss the topic at hand?

 

[TerryInFlorida]

Enough of the personal attacks and challenges. Back to the actual subject of the thread:

I agree with Catherine, condolences and the like should be separated from critique and analysis. However, I think critique and analysis are appropriate, if not necessary. Facts should come from those who are witnesses. Facts are things that come from the five senses. All else is opinion. IMHO, any statement that utilizes a conjugation of the verb “to be” is probably an opinion, whether the speaker’s or someone else’s. (Saying “It is 5:00 p.m.” is an opinion. Saying “My watch reads 5:00” is a fact.)

Subject to the foregoing, opinions and speculation is not a bad thing. It should be based on fact. A recent thread on a diving accident reflected something to the effect that the deceased diver’s second stage did not have a mouthpiece. That is a very odd fact. Why would it not have a mouthpiece? The answer may be speculative. However, such speculation might lead to investigation that might lead to a potentially valid answer. (For what its worth, in my experience, mouthpieces don’t often just come off second stages. Perhaps it was not installed correctly—in which case, it could have been a contributing factor to the injury. Perhaps it was pulled off in a struggle for the second stage—in which case it might be in someone’s mouth and might give a clue as to the nature of the struggle.)

Speculation may lead to answers.

Discussion, even without all the facts may prevent future injuries.

As to Catherine’s inquiry as to whether lawyers peruse what people have written. The answer is “yes.” We have to separate useful from useless. And, even if we don’t peruse, the experts we hire to educate us and provide us with opinions, do.

BTW: If I should die while diving, I hope all my SB friends will openly discuss it. Perhaps something useful will come to light and will prevent future incidents. However, I would hope they would refrain from unnecessarily criticizing my buddy, dive master, dive operator, resort, equipment manufacturer or anyone else. I’m sure these already feel badly. But, if there is justified blame, then it should not be hidden. Again, that is to prevent future incidents.

Also: As to DM protocol of not discussing accidents, my understanding is that this is to protect the DM, dive operator and certifying organization from possible liability, not because silence is the “right thing” to maintain.

I agree 100% with everything you wrote, great post.

 

[TerryInFlorida]

Since Howarde left the thread perhaps you could PM this to him and let folks discuss the topic at hand?

Okey dokey and next time he replies to me on the board would you please step in and advice him to do the same?

Thanks

btw, it is on topic. It is about To Critique or not to Critique and the topic creator never said this wasn't within the topic boundary but I can be co-operative and be the bigger man.

 

[CD_in_Chitown]

I agree 100% with everything you wrote, great post.

But you just won't let it go....

btw, it is on topic.

My arse

 

[CD_in_Chitown]

Okey dokey and next time he replies to me on the board would you please step in and advice him to do the same?

Thanks

Sure thing, if you're unable to report a bad post please let me know and I'll take H to the mattresses for you, no problem.

 

[dlndavid]

well, there is a lot of self moderation here on SB

 

[dherbman]

Lets start here...

Better yet, let's finish here. You're off topic and boring.

I'll continue to read incident threads while keeping in mind that there is useful information to be gleaned from the speculation and misinformation.

I'd also agree with Catherine that condolences should be kept out of analysis. Personally, I've never understood the need of people to publicly express condolences, but I'm socially defective.

 

[Divesherpa]

Howard,

I'm with you. I haven't pointed any fingers. I speak in generalizations to avoid provoking emotional outpourings from individuals outside our area of diving. I appreciate the support, but find it unnecessary.
Terry has 29 posts, most of which were somewhat informative and reasonable. He seems very emotionally attached to this issue. Many of us are. This thread will continue down the toilet until someone closes it or we stop bickering over irrelevant BS.
Terry,
If I have met you and offended you in some way, join the crowd.

The facts have been published by Kevin. Draw your own conclusion. Terry is the only person that I mentioned because his humor (lol) directed at me. I have stated my opinion (and fault) in that situation. Searching for that post would take hours, so he obviously has a personal grudge. Again, join the crowd.

This horse has been beat to death. Very little constructive is coming from this discussion. Terry, enjoy your salt water lake. Howard, see ya next week for more of the great diving we always have. Everyone else remember why this thread was started. It has become personal to some.

The outpouring of respect and well wishes for Kevin remains the most constructive thing to come from these threads. Let's focus on that.

If anyone has a personal issue that they would like to settle, let's sit down. I'll buy you a beer and listen to your complaint. You may be right. I may be right. Right now, those points are irrelevant as people are dead on my home reef and a good friend had to raise the bodies.


Cheers,
Jamie

 

[TCDiver1]

well, there is a lot of self moderation here on SB

Yes guys. How about practicing a little of that and taking it back to the Surface Interval okay?

 

[dlndavid]

will do, just trying to keep it light.