To be, finger tight or wrench tight is the question ?

[Nemrod]

I saw you mentioned that someone could switch a reg underwater: I didn’t know it was a thing.

I was genuinely asking: I think nowadays nobody would switch a reg underwater, so I’d have assumed that the better practice would be to slightly tighten more?

Myself, I first use my fingers then I use a slight wrench tightening to finish, but I am quite new to this. That’s why I am asking

I would not dissagree with your thoughts.

I will let current cave divers answer if any are about concerning carriage of entire second stage assemblies. But it is or was a thing to be able to take apart a second stage thus the preference among many cave and tech divers for the G250 and the clone of it, the Halcyon regulator and similar. But, in the day and times when I was (ignorantly) trying to kill myself, there were no such regulators that could be easily disassembled so we carried, quite often, an entire second stage. The Conshelf, the regulator that I used and it's predecessors, had a band clamp that retained the cover and diaphragm and that required a screw driver and much futzing about with. The G250 cover simply unscrews for easy access and clearing of the issue.

Again, I was not trying to define a right or wrong, but for me, that is the origin of my finger tight practice and I am certainly willing to admit it may no longer have a purpose other than easy maintenance on the boat, beach or tailgate.

James

 

[macado]

It used to be a specific DIR / GUE thing that was taught so you can imagine why people still do it. Old habits die hard. I also could be wrong and maybe it was one of those "old school cave diver" things that was taught but I wasn't cave diving back then so I can't comment.

I can't remember when the practice was discontinued or even if it was but it was something that was discussed ad nauseam at one point. Perhaps someone else knows the answer..

 

[Nemrod]

It used to be a specific DIR / GUE thing that was taught so you can imagine why people still do it. Old habits die hard. I also could be wrong and maybe it was one of those "old school cave diver" things that was taught but I wasn't cave diving back then so I can't comment.

I can't remember when the practice was discontinued or even if it was but it was something that was discussed ad nauseam at one point. Perhaps someone else knows the answer..

I think you are right. It was something taught and advised in some circles in the past. The regulators many or most of us used did not come apart easily. Thus we carried, at least some of us did, an entire second stage assembly. I am of the mind that the practice of carrying an assembly or taking a regulator second stage apart underwater is an obsolete concept. But, I am not allowed in the caves any more and I do not know what is DIR practice currently as they are not my yardstick.

Edit to add, the times I am speaking of were the 70s. Many of the springs that are now commercialized or turned into parks run by the Gestapo were just out in the woods, down sand roads. It was fun times though we did not make the long or deep penetrations now possible. So this is long before DIR, GUE or any of that. We copied each other, if you did not live to tell about it, you did not get copied. Some exaggeration, maybe. My finger tight practice came from that time. A long time ago.

James

 

[Lorenzoid]

It used to be a specific DIR / GUE thing that was taught so you can imagine why people still do it. Old habits die hard. I also could be wrong and maybe it was one of those "old school cave diver" things that was taught but I wasn't cave diving back then so I can't comment.

I can't remember when the practice was discontinued or even if it was but it was something that was discussed ad nauseam at one point. Perhaps someone else knows the answer..

I can't speak to the old days, and I doubt it was ever part of what was "taught"--maybe more of an individual instructor thing--but I have had more than one GUE instructor check to see that my regs were more than finger tight. Being an engineer at heart, I tighten mine to 40 in-lbs.

 

[macado]

I would have to do a more thorough search but there are posts on here from 2002, 2005 and 2007 where several prolific DIR posters talked about how they kept their second stages finger tight or were taught that. I'm not sure if this was due to the preferences of a few instructors or if it was actually curriculum

Did I mention how much I hate this practice?

 

[Gone for diving]

I leave mine finger tight but have had it back off enough to blow out the oring on air up, I guess it swivels enough that it backs off after a while,,,
( depressurize back off and retighten)
I think if you're doing extremely dives it's a good idea,
but in general not necessary, and probably more problems than its worth,

It would make more sense to carry with you a SS multi tool suitable for diving, that had a small adjustable and or pliers,

 

[drk5036]

One time I didn't use a wrench to tighten the connection to the first stage, and it backed off during travel, leaving me scratching my head until I figured out what that sound was...

 

[halocline]

I'm a current cave diver, and I use a wrench to snug up all hose connections just beyond hand tight. I also carry a multi-tool in my pouch on dives that would allow me to take off a 2nd stage, and since I use 109s for 2nd stages, I also carry a small allen key to remove the clamp on the later model 2nd stage if I ever needed to take it apart. Both tools are very compact and I never notice them. I have used the multi tool to tighten loose hoses on a buddy's rig during the pre-dive check. That's pretty handy, MUCH better than taking the tanks back to the car.

I have carried a spare 2nd stage on cave dives but I usually don't bother. It's not a bad idea; it would probably be easier and faster to simply swap out a 2nd stage under water than to try to take the cover off and fix whatever is wrong with an existing one. But at some point you have to consider the law of diminishing returns in terms of all the crap that goes into a pouch, and since you already have redundant 2nd stages plus a dive partner with redundant 2nd stages and enough gas to get both divers out, the chance of actually needing to swap a 2nd stage mid-dive is pretty remote.

I have had significant problems with 2nd stages on rare occasions; once my exhaust valve got tucked inside the case a bit and that reg breathed pretty wet for the rest of the dive, but was still manageable. Another time the diaphragm got a little stuck to the rubber purge cover and that reg breathed badly but still delivered air.

 

[Jack Hammer]

When I took Fundies in 2009 I recall the online "DIR" police being pretty vocal about a bunch of stuff, gear, and procedures, including 2nd stages being only finger tight, that wasn't taught, required, suggested, or encouraged in any way during my class.

 

[Gone for diving]

I'm a current cave diver, and I use a wrench to snug up all hose connections just beyond hand tight. I also carry a multi-tool in my pouch on dives that would allow me to take off a 2nd stage, and since I use 109s for 2nd stages, I also carry a small allen key to remove the clamp on the later model 2nd stage if I ever needed to take it apart. Both tools are very compact and I never notice them. I have used the multi tool to tighten loose hoses on a buddy's rig during the pre-dive check. That's pretty handy, MUCH better than taking the tanks back to the car.

I have carried a spare 2nd stage on cave dives but I usually don't bother. It's not a bad idea; it would probably be easier and faster to simply swap out a 2nd stage under water than to try to take the cover off and fix whatever is wrong with an existing one. But at some point you have to consider the law of diminishing returns in terms of all the crap that goes into a pouch, and since you already have redundant 2nd stages plus a dive partner with redundant 2nd stages and enough gas to get both divers out, the chance of actually needing to swap a 2nd stage mid-dive is pretty remote.

I have had significant problems with 2nd stages on rare occasions; once my exhaust valve got tucked inside the case a bit and that reg breathed pretty wet for the rest of the dive, but was still manageable. Another time the diaphragm got a little stuck to the rubber purge cover and that reg breathed badly but still delivered air.

Oh how nice to dive without thick gloves,
Nicely open and reassemble the reg,
So easy without bulky gloves,

I understand it being finger tight with thick gloves its probably about most of the fine motor skills I want to do in open water on and anchor line,
never mind fooling with a wrench on top of that,