Titanium regulators comparison over non-titanium

[tep]

Of course, a Ti reg could be useful if you're de-arming magnetic mines

Otherwise, not so much...

(Yes, the military did/does use Ti tools in some diving "applications".)

 

[beanojones]

Thanks a lot for your reviews... There is not much of it rather than Bling... I agree

Absolutely 100% false. Titanium is inert. Period. Brass and chrome are not. Every time this comes up the old schoolers say "Titanium is pointless" because chrome does not wear out, but that's just nonsense. Otherwise, there would be no business for rechroming old regs, and there is. The same people who say chrome lasts, are the same people who can tell you where to get your re-chroming done.

No offense old schoolers, but. You say chrome lasts forever, and yet you talk about where to get rechroming done. If the first part is true, the second would not be needed.

I have retired a number of brass and chrome regs due to corrosion and wear,. Usage patterns are different. 4 dives or more a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year is one thing. Four dives a year, most years, except when you got back surgery that one year, is another. At the high end of use, brass and chrome fails in a year or two in certain parts. According to one guy who has been diving the same Atomic reg since 1997, Titanium does not care. (http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/re...-stage-wear-does-atomic-titanium-hold-up.html). If I kept gear long term, I would probably have gone through at least 5 or 6 reg sets in that time, due to corrosion, and corrosion induced wear.

Rental gear also dies from chrome rot, not so much from use as sustained corrosion.

Many people seem to get lots of years out of owning regular chrome gearthat is stored in climate controlled places. But being owned does not cause any wear on gear whatsoever. Diving causes wear.

But everyday use gear, or gear that gets stored in the boat, or anywhere in the tropics? Titanium second stages are great. And there is not really a premium on them. Titianium first stages (first stages are the expensive part, becuase more actual metal is used) are not as useful since the working bits of a diaphragm first stage are also protected. But if the dust cap comes off you can destroy the diaphragm first stage, while the titanium first stage does not really care. Then again, you could probably buy three or four new diaphragm first stages for the price of a titanium first stage.

Buy a titanium reg and you never need to buy another set of gear. Even in the nasty environments, and under heavy usage. But a chrome reg set may last the rest of your life as well, if you do not dive much, and can store the gear in a climate controlled environment.

Think of it this way: If you are not an instructor or guide, you can always rent your gear and save money. Any decision on which gear to buy, (and even whether to buy at all) is a personal choice, like my pink wetsuit and orange fins. So saying titanium is bling is a little strange. It's all bling.

(Also the more people that buy Titanium second stages, the more likely it is I will be able to buy more used ones for use in my rental fleet. For me, titanium second stages are ideal rental gear: light and long lasting. I have three of them, but need six more).

 

[battles2a5]

Titanium regs are definitely bling. Corrosion of brass/chrome regs is not a problem, it is a byproduct of poor maintenance. I'm not sure what parts fail in 2 years of use on brass regs, but I put around 140 dives a year on mine and they look brand new. And I am not great about maintaining them. Dunking them in a rinse tank and hang them to dry or do a quarry dive to rinse off the salt. Both types have consumable parts that need to be replaced as normal maintenance.

And even if corrosion were a problem with brass regs, titanium is a bad choice for a metal since you are limited in what percentage of O2 you can run through them. So why would you build a "high-end" reg with "high tech" materials that is limited to basic nitrox diving? Sales and marketing maybe? With all the coating technology out there today, I am sure there are much more cost effective options to preventing corrosion that wouldn't look as nice in a sales brochure.

I do see where having them in a rental fleet would be helpful. But I'd like to see the cost/benefit analysis of purchasing ti regs for a rental fleet vs. maintaining the brass/chrome ones before I would make that kind of decision.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

I work with a shop that still has 30 year old Mk 5's in regular rental service where they see salt water on a regular basis. Over the last year or so I have retired a couple that could no longer be made to breathe to spec, but for the most part they are still in good shape. Any chrome loss is cosmetic only and due more to impact than corrosion.

If properly maintained, brass will last for decades - longer than most divers. Now I agree if you don;t want to rinse your regs the Ti bits will hold up pretty well - but the rest of the reg is going to suffer from the abuse, so the Ti is again pointless overkill.

 

[Nemrod]

What is an "old schooler," is that something like a home schooler?

The regulators that are being rechromed now are being done after in some cases 50 years of use and largely for cosmetic labor of love reasons, not functional reasons. Titanium or not, no plastic fantastic will be in use 50 years from now but some of the now 50 year "old schoolers" will still be going when they are 100 years older school, with a new rechrome to boot.

Old school, my arse.

AL, if you would please give me a titanium Titan with titanium first stage and an all titanium second stage. Then I would have a single hose reg that could last 50 years. They could call it the Titananium! Sorry Luis, I agree with you, but, titanium, yumm. AL, you can keep your stupid rubber band fins, you wussed out on a real double hose, howabout something really cool for a change, it could come with a matching titanium knife and a silver mask.

N

 

[DwayneJ]

And even if corrosion were a problem with brass regs, titanium is a bad choice for a metal since you are limited in what percentage of O2 you can run through them.

This point is mentioned a few times. Your primary reg(s) if used for recreational or tech diving is never going to see more than 40% O2. Certainly stage regs need to be 100% O2 capable and for that there are some good basic regs to choose from O2 clean right out of the box - OMS comes to mind. I'm planning my tech setup and my oxygen clean regs will be kept clean.

I'm a huge fan of Ti in general.

Dwayne

 

[DwayneJ]

Exactly, Titanium sparks very easily which is not a great combination with high-pressure gases with elevated oxygen levels. Ti regs are nothing more than bling. But you may be into that sort of thing if you are buying the XTX Status regs.

Sparks????

A Titanium mirror surface polish for practical purposes is impossible to achieve. As such gas at high pressure and velocity in a first stage generates friction which would generate a small amount of heat. Not a concern at 40% or less concentrations of oxygen but a concern at higher percentages.

Obviously a first stage made of any metal used in O2 applications needs to be maintained.... Of course I admit I do like tech bling.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

I think the "spark" reference refers to a higher potential for entrained ferrous particles from elsewhere in the copmpressor/fill station/tank system to spark if they impact the comparatively rough Ti surface. The other caution involves the oxides that form on a Ti surface that are for all intents and purposes impossible to remove making proper O2 cleaning much more difficult.

 

[battles2a5]

I think the "spark" reference refers to a higher potential for entrained ferrous particles from elsewhere in the copmpressor/fill station/tank system to spark if they impact the comparatively rough Ti surface. The other caution involves the oxides that form on a Ti surface that are for all intents and purposes impossible to remove making proper O2 cleaning much more difficult.

That is correct. And Dwayne, as for your primary reg being intended for backgas. That's fine for the majority of people. If you are getting serious about technical diving I would reconsider that position. You never know what is going to happen on the boat, in remote conditions, etc. that would force you to reconfigure your gear (due to failure, breakage, etc.) In a worst case scenario there is also the possibility of swapping regs underwater (e.g. failed reg on deco stage). Or let's say that you want to get get some new BG regs and migrate your shiney Ti regs to stage/deco regs. Nope, can't do it. The only use they can provide you now is as back-ups or a dedicated singles reg.

IMO, you are taking a lot of options off the table w/ Ti regs for VERY limited benefit.

 

[DwayneJ]

You never know what is going to happen on the boat, in remote conditions, etc. that would force you to reconfigure your gear (due to failure, breakage, etc.)

Standardizing regs for my tech setup will certainly be a future consideration. For the majority of my local non tech diving, I'm very happy with what I use today.

Can you share what your "standardized" reg setup is? From what I have learnt to date, if you are going to use a reg for O2, it needs to be rated and prepped for O2 use. Assuming as you suggested you needed to do a repair in water, is your current primary 1st and 2nd stage 100% rated O2, 80% rated O2 or some other rating?

Thanks.