Tipping the DM

[RJP]

If the employee is doing jobs unrelated to being a divemaster (cleaning the boat, adding fuel, etc.), why should I need to tip him for that?

You continue to disregard the economic realities of running a business. If the boat/op incurs payroll expenses in the running of the business they are going to be factored into the cost of the charter the customer pays.

PS - I'll bet you'll find that boat crew at a great many ops are NOT employees. So there's no need to pay them minimum wage. Even if they were, they could be paid the min wage for tipped earners which went up to $5.03 this year. If it were $8.03 the maths still don't work out for you getting a better deal.

As for the employee paying half the FICA, you're right. But, as you seem to be a crusader for fair wages for boat crews, I was assuming that you didn't expect them to earn even LESS under your suggested construct than they do now, and would gross-up the costs to guard against that. But again, even if you didn't... the maths still probably don't work out for you getting a better deal.

---------- Post added March 21st, 2015 at 01:37 PM ----------

Assuming, the DM is actually on the payroll, there is no incremental costs to paying him additional salary. /QUOTE]

Wanna think that one through a little bit?

---------- Post added March 21st, 2015 at 01:40 PM ----------

but usually "six packs" do have the ability to carry more than six divers. So if the boat can carry 10 but the average load is 6 we get the same numbers.

More reality for you: Six packs are "six packs" because if they are six packs they don't have the onerous Coast Guard requirements (and associated costs) that boats that take more than six passenger do. Six packs can't take more than six passengers... even if the boat is large enough to take twenty.

 

[Storker]

You are penalizing a person when you don't tip in a culture that uses tips as income. Your personal attack of my reading comprehension will be noted. I will still tip until a change is made. Cheers

Show me where I said I'm not tipping people who rely on tips to earn a decent wage. If you can do that, I'll apologize fully for my comment about reading comprehension.

You obviously didn't read my post properly, or you weren't able to comprehend it. I tried to explain why some believe paying a decent wage is better than making people rely on gratuities. I said absolutely nothing about my opinion about tipping people who aren't paid a decent wage. Do you get it now?


And just for the record, in case you still don't get it: If I know that service workers rely on tips to make a decent living, I tip. Regardless of my opinion about which system I prefer. The problem arises when one travels across the world and aren't aware of local customs.

---------- Post added March 21st, 2015 at 06:54 PM ----------

the real-word implications of what those who resent the idea of paying a $10/tank tip are that you are effectively asking to be charged $17.50 per tank in order to have the boat include the $10/tank cost of a tip included in the price of a charter.

IMO this is a prime example why the tipping system is an immoral way to run business. AFAIK, non-employees aren't covered by workman's comp either. Got bent? Embolized? Too bad you weren't employed. No health insurance and disability comp for you.

The tipping system transfers the real cost of operations from the customer to the worker. And the worker is screwed. EDIT: And because of that I resent paying 10$/tank tip instead of being charged the real cost of operations.

 

[RJP]

The problem arises when one travels across the world and aren't aware of local customs.

Not a tipping comment, but in 2015 how can one "travel across the world and not be aware of local customs"? In less than 30 seconds ANYONE can find out ANYTHING about ANYPLACE in the world.

---------- Post added March 21st, 2015 at 05:32 PM ----------

And because of that I resent paying 10$/tank tip instead of being charged the real cost of operations.

Also not a tipping comment: You must resent spending any money anywhere then. Where do you suppose that you are ever charged "the real cost of operations" for anything? Or do you believe that businesses are run on a break-even basis, with no regard for profit?

 

[ScubaInChicago]

I usually tip with 20's & 6 packs of beer. I honestly think the beer has gotten us preferential treatment over the money.

 

[TMHeimer]

I tip $10US per tank because that's what I've read is the going rate. I've never DMd a charter, so I don't personally know what the other duties are besides what I see on the one or 2 boats I take a year, and what I read about on SB. I think there is a difference between someone who gets a very poor wage and depends on tips (such as waiter/waitress)--and has to report those tips on their tax returns, and a DM who does charters with NO wage other than tips (he must report tips also of course)-- which seems to be the norm. Some of the replies here seem to group these two situations together. Anyway, for extra good service I would probably tip a lot more, but our retirement living expenses hardly come at all from pensions, but from investments (which can rise and fall). So, everyone tips according to their circumstances and what makes sense to them.

 

[Lorenzoid]

I couldn't disagree with you more. The employment contract is between the employer and employee, NOT the customer. Why should the customer need to make up for the stinginess of the employer? . . .

I disagree. In the context of "tipped employees," the US system involves three, if you will, "stakeholders": employer, employee and customer. The Internal Revenue Service (I spell out for the benefit of foreigners) rules that allow employers to pay so-called "tipped employees" less than the normal minimum wage seem to support this perspective. You the customer ARE expected to make up that portion of the value of the employee's services that are not covered by the employee's wages. What was originally a little something extra to reward good service is now firmly established as an integral part of the employee's total compensation.

---------- Post added March 24th, 2015 at 09:15 AM ----------

. . .

There are many occupations that deal with people where tips are not required. For example airline personnel, the check out person at the supermarket, sales people at a department store, etc. Why is a DM entitled to a tip but they are not? Why do I need to pay people to do their jobs? . . .

Unions and sales commissions provide some cushioning in some occupations. Certainly not all, but some. People like DMs and most restaurant servers have nothing like that to help them.

 

[Storker]

in 2015 how can one "travel across the world and not be aware of local customs"? In less than 30 seconds ANYONE can find out ANYTHING about ANYPLACE in the world.

Provided, of course, that one is aware of the quite fundamental cultural differences between tipping cultures and non-tipping cultures and actually check on the going rates. That one should do that is not obvious for a tourist coming from a non-tipping culture. Also, it's pretty hard to get a good overview of "best practice". Where do I tip, how much, how often? It's a freakin' minefield, and very few online sources agree fully on that.

You must resent spending any money anywhere then. Where do you suppose that you are ever charged "the real cost of operations" for anything? Or do you believe that businesses are run on a break-even basis, with no regard for profit?

Don't be silly. I do understand that any business has to make a profit to stay alive, and I of course don't resent paying that overhead. But slashing costs to present an apparently cheaper bill and leaving it up to the customers and their lack of cluelessness whether or not an employee should receive a decent income isn't a business model I'm comfortable with. Just look at the different rates even people from your tipping culture think are appropriate.

 

[coldwaterlloyd]

Amazing the reaction of this thread !

Frankly I wish liveaboards etc would add the tip in and pay the crew a good wage . Period

Same with dive charters , just pay the crew , advertise tips included

I want to turn Australian at times