Tipping the DM

[CamG]

Out of US I tip $10 a tank daily.
Then at the end of trip or last trip a larger tip to anyone who went over and above.
On our trip to Playa our guide was a instructor who really did a outstanding job, thus a larger tip!

Inside the US $10-$20 plus usually a meal with beverages sometimes travel expenses.
Do not forget gas is expensive and for a DM who is rarely payed very well from a shop they are trying survive.
In my time as a DMC our instructor really went out of his way to treat us right, meals, gas money, etc.
Rarely when we were guiding or assisting did we ever get tips in the US.
He would make sure we had free fills for our tanks as well as Vis's.

This is not the normal in the states so be sensitive to DM's when they are helping you.
Even if they don't help you, if you see them being outstanding at least commend them for their service.
Some of the best comments came from outsider customers who were only observing.
Never treat or call a DM a tank bitch!
I can guarantee that is that most degrading thing you can do!

CamG

 

[Storker]

So the dive operator pays the dm's a fair price but now has to raise the fee for the dives. In the end, you won't be out of pocket any less.

But you wouldn't be out of pocket much more either.

As a bonus, you as a customer won't have to ask what the local tipping practice is or being regarded as stingy if you stiff the dm (by local standards, but not necessarily by your standards). The DMs are paid more or less decently without depending on gratuities and handouts from the customers, and the salary is reported to the tax authorities which qualifies them for social security and unemployment benefits. Win-win. That's why people in non-tipping parts of the world prefer that service personnel are paid a (half-)decent salary.

 

[vincent54]

So why penalize the DM's that work in a tipping area? Change the system. Until then tip for f$$$k sake

 

[Storker]

So why penalize the DM's that work in a tipping area?

Who said anything about penalizing anyone? You might benefit from improving your reading comprehension.

for f$$$k sake

Why do some people get so aggressive when tipping practice is discussed?

 

[ams511]

Don't be a hater. It sounds almost punitive when you say you don't want to tip so someone else can live the dream. If you don't want to tip a dm, there is always the option of getting a boat and going out by yourself. As far as being a dream job, dealing with people at any level can be trying. Personally, being a DM would be awful.

So the dive operator pays the dm's a fair price but now has to raise the fee for the dives. In the end, you won't be out of pocket any less.

If anyone is being a hater it is you. I asked a reasonable question which you did not answer. A DM does work in a field that pays below minimum wage. So why should I need to tip him/her to do their job?

There are many occupations that deal with people where tips are not required. For example airline personnel, the check out person at the supermarket, sales people at a department store, etc. Why is a DM entitled to a tip but they are not? Why do I need to pay people to do their jobs?

What is a decent wage? Lets assume the DM makes $10 an hour and $20 an hour would be more equitable. A 1/2 day 2 tank trip is roughly 4 hours so the increase in wages would be $40. On a 6-pack that would be about $7.00 more per person, much less expensive than $10 per tank additional.

 

[RJP]

Who said anything about penalizing anyone? You might benefit from improving your reading comprehension.


Why do some people get so aggressive when tipping practice is discussed?

On both sides. (Like making a snarky comment about someone's reading ability, perhaps?)

It's tough for most people to discuss the rational topic of "economics" without making it about the emotional topic of "money."

 

[ams511]

Why do some people get so aggressive when tipping practice is discussed?

They may work or know someone that works in an industry where tipping is practiced. But then again I am the "hater".

---------- Post added March 21st, 2015 at 07:49 AM ----------

On both sides. (Like making a snarky comment about someone's reading ability, perhaps?)

It's tough for most people to discuss the rational topic of "economics" without making it about the emotional topic of "money."

Tipping is not based on economics but local customs. For example in Singapore the thought is tipping is the first step towards corruption. People won't do anything unless tipped and this happens in many countries.

 

[vincent54]

You are penalizing a person when you don't tip in a culture that uses tips as income. Your personal attack of my reading comprehension will be noted. I will still tip until a change is made. Cheers

 

[RJP]

What is a decent wage? Lets assume the DM makes $10 an hour and $20 an hour would be more equitable. A 1/2 day 2 tank trip is roughly 4 hours so the increase in wages would be $40. On a 6-pack that would be about $7.00 more per person, much less expensive than $10 per tank additional.

Instead of making baseless assumptions let's rather look at the reality of the world - at least in the US - shall we?

The DM is likely paid something much closer to ZERO dollars an hour by the shop/boat. Right wrong or indifferent, that's the reality. If you want to get them up to $20 an hour, the overall increase in the cost of that 4-hour trip will need to be closer to $80, split among six passengers. So the cost of that charter is going up $13.33 per person. Now how much extra would you pay for the charter? Don't answer yet.

Do you think the DM/crew member doesn't start working until the boat leaves the dock... and that they head home the moment the boat ties up at the end of the charter? Let's add an hour before and an hour after the charter. So now we've got $120 spread across 6 paying passengers. That's $20 more per passenger, or $10 a tank. Cost-neutral to a $10/tank tip, right?

Wrong.

If they're going to build it into the cost of the charter they are going to factor it by something to guard against losing money to pay the crew on less-than-full charters. Say a .66 load factor, essentially spreading the increased cost across four passengers "just in case." (Anyone know a boat/op that's more than a handful of under-booked charters away from going out of business?) So each person's cost per trip is now $30 more. ($15/tank to avoid a $10/tank tip, for those following along at home.) Done?

Nope.

Now that these folks are "employees" of the boat/op they will need to be on the books. So that $30 extra per person will also come with, at minimum, payroll tax (+13.3%) so the $30 extra per person is now $33.99 per person. Just to make the math easy, and factor in other minor cost increases the boat/op now incurs to process payroll, taxes, etc that they aren't doing under the current reality, let's call it $35 more per person.

So, the real-word implications of what those who resent the idea of paying a $10/tank tip are that you are effectively asking to be charged $17.50 per tank in order to have the boat include the $10/tank cost of a tip included in the price of a charter.

You can modify the number assumptions as you like, but any place in the world where tipping is the cultural/socioeconomic norm you'll be hard pressed to find a real-world situation where "having the tip included in the cost of the charter" or the boat/op "paying the crew a living wage" will not cost you MORE out-of-pocket than what the going-rate tip will.

When you let emotions enter the analysis, humans will invariably make irrational financial decisions that go directly against their own best interests. Often with a smug sense of self-satisfaction for having done so.

 

[ams511]

You are penalizing a person when you don't tip in a culture that uses tips as income.

There is no such thing as a "tipping culture". In countries where tipping is practiced it is not universal, in some industries tipping is done and in others it is not. However based on the proliferation of tip jars it seems everyone wants to be tipped now.

Your personal attack of my reading comprehension will be noted.

Actually, this was not a personal attack but an observation. I was going to mention the same thing to you.

---------- Post added March 21st, 2015 at 09:00 AM ----------

You can modify the number assumptions as you like, but any place in the world where tipping is the cultural/socioeconomic norm you'll be hard pressed to find a real-world situation where "having the tip included in the cost of the charter" or the boat/op "paying the crew a living wage" will not cost you MORE out-of-pocket than what the going-rate tip will.

When you let emotions enter the analysis, humans will invariably make irrational financial decisions that go directly against their own best interests. Often with a smug sense of self-satisfaction for having done so.

First, thanks for such a long post. However, your analysis is based on YOUR ASSUMPTIONS. In Florida the minimum wage is $8.05 / hr. if the employer is not paying that then the employee should contact the Wage and Hour division of the U.S. Department of Labor. They do take such claims seriously.

If the employee is doing jobs unrelated to being a divemaster (cleaning the boat, adding fuel, etc.), why should I need to tip him for that?

Assuming, the DM is actually on the payroll, there is no incremental costs to paying him additional salary. If they are working under the table that is illegal and should be reported to the proper authorities. Bad actors drive good ones out of the market.

As far as payroll taxes go 1/2 is paid by the employee. I can't argue about the load factor but usually "six packs" do have the ability to carry more than six divers. So if the boat can carry 10 but the average load is 6 we get the same numbers.

Your analysis also fails to include any externalities. So if the person is not reporting their tip income is he/she collecting public assistance? If they start reporting income will they be ineligible? If so there is cost savings.

There is no cultural norm for universal tipping. If there was some overriding economic rationale for it we would expect to see it in most cultures, especially in closely related cultures. However, we don't. Why do we tip a boat captain but not an airline captain or at least the co-pilot?

Also tipping can actually increase the price of a product. A few years ago I read an article about how trendy (and expensive) restaurants in NYC were beginning to add "kitchen charges" to their bills. The reason being is that the chiefs were upset because the wait staff were making more than they were. So rather than making the wait staff kick in a portion of the tips the restaurant added a new charge.