Tipping the DM

[AdivingBel]

That's one of the things that always gets lost on these tipping threads. What is average or the norm depends on where you are standing. Where I do the most diving the DM doesn't get wet. You are not offered assistance, you ask for for help (that's O.K., I like that). The cap gets you to and from the site and calls the roll. That is what I expect and that is what I tip for. I tip extra if the DM hauls the flag on a drift, if they guide the dive (I don't care for guided dives) and does a good job, if they bring me up 200 yds. behind the boat...not so much (why I don't like guided dives), if the cap takes us to a special site only he knows and it's a good dive, heck if he breaks into his stash and makes me a good marg on the way back to the dock, etc etc.. You can call me cheap, but I tip for service and I'm the easiest money on the boat if you make the trip special. Having someone tell me what the norm is and if I disagree, I'm below average... well bite me, it's a gratuity.

 

[RJP]

The US system is completely baffling to us.

If you want to talk about things that are genuinely baffling outside the borders of the country of origin...

 

[phlegm]

What's so baffling about the Nectar of the Gods?

---------- Post added March 18th, 2015 at 12:02 AM ----------

(I'm eating vegemite right now btw so props for accurate stereotyping)

 

[daniel1948]

I think that characterization could be considered accurate... if tipping were considered to be the social or cultural norm in only a handful of remote, backward societies ...

What I meant (and I though I had made myself clear) is that here in the U.S. tipping is always said to be a "gratuity" at the discretion of the customer, but wages are lowered in anticipation of tips, so that only with good tips does a worker earn enough to live on.

It's uncivilized to pay starvation wages in the expectation that tips will make up the difference. Especially when some people assert that tips are a gratuity and therefore there's no reason for them to tip.

as an Australian, the thought of tipping honestly never even enters my mind. It's just not part of the mentality. You pay for a service, the onus is on the employer to pay their employees fairly. The US system is completely baffling to us.

That's civilized: A worker's paycheck is what supports them, not the discretion of customers who think they're already paying too much, or who have no idea how critical tips are to a worker's ability to pay for rent and groceries.

People should pay for the goods and services they want, and a fair living wage is part of the cost of providing those goods and services. In the U.S., where the rule is starvation wages plus tips, stingy customers are allowed to legally rob the workers who serve them by denying those workers a necessary part of their income.

---------- Post added March 19th, 2015 at 03:41 PM ----------

I ate Vegemite when I was down under some years back. I think I'd have liked it if they'd left out about 99% of the salt. The stuff is 4% sodium by weight.

 

[scjoe]

Some of the numbers thrown around seem off to me. The average daily wage needs to be considered. In a 2008 Undercurrent Article, Ben Davidson noted that the average minimum wage in Bangkok is about $6 a day and in Indonesia it is around $3 a day. He goes on to state that in Papua New Guinea laborers make $100 to $200 a month. When you take these numbers into account, that “extra $20 to $40 a week”, that someone sneered at is not so bad. Five dollars a tank is not 20 years out of date in these areas. It may be quite substantial in the local economy.

The $25 for a three tank dive that was also suggested is out of place in Southern California. Very few people tip more than $20 for a three tank dive out here and a lot tip less. DMs don’t go in the water here.

Contrary to the statement that “tipping is considered to be the social/cultural norm in a huge proportion of societies on earth ”tipping is not the norm in China, Japan, French Polynesia, Australia, Korea, Brazil or France, just to name a few, although the French (and other Europeans) do round up bills and the Aussies may slowly be getting dragged into the US model. Sure tour guides impress on tourists the need to tip their people in these countries and tourist restaurants may tack on a 10% tip to the bill, but that doesn’t make it the social or cultural norm of the country. It is a norm that one industry is applying to outsiders only.

 

[chillyinCanada]

Think of how painful it can be to tip on a liveaboard. And all the different cultures of the divers, tippers vs non and/or low tippers due to culture. It can be almost physically painful for me sometimes to throw in another $500+ cash when I've already laid out so much for the trip on the front end.

 

[ams511]

In the U.S., where the rule is starvation wages plus tips, stingy customers are allowed to legally rob the workers who serve them by denying those workers a necessary part of their income.

I couldn't disagree with you more. The employment contract is between the employer and employee, NOT the customer. Why should the customer need to make up for the stinginess of the employer? Also why should you need to tip more in a restaurant because your food costs more? Does it take the server any more effort to deliver a lobster than a hamburger? If the restaurant owner wants to reward the server for upselling, he should pay the bonus or commission, not the customer.

We live in a capitalist economy where wages are determined by supply and demand. Typically "fun" jobs pay less because the supply of people willing to do them is more than the quantity of these positions. Why should I tip the boat crew so they can "live the dream"?

 

[phlegm]

I ate Vegemite when I was down under some years back. I think I'd have liked it if they'd left out about 99% of the salt. The stuff is 4% sodium by weight.

nah mate you probably made the mistake almost everyone does first time: spreading it on like it's peanut butter. It's strong ****, you only put on a super thin scraping (on buttered toast obviously)

we're tackling the big issues here folks

 

[CJS]

If you want to talk about things that are genuinely baffling outside the borders of the country of origin...

Just to be clear, this baffles some of us who ARE Aussies too.

 

[vincent54]

I couldn't disagree with you more. The employment contract is between the employer and employee, NOT the customer. Why should the customer need to make up for the stinginess of the employer? Also why should you need to tip more in a restaurant because your food costs more? Does it take the server any more effort to deliver a lobster than a hamburger? If the restaurant owner wants to reward the server for upselling, he should pay the bonus or commission, not the customer.

We live in a capitalist economy where wages are determined by supply and demand. Typically "fun" jobs pay less because the supply of people willing to do them is more than the quantity of these positions. Why should I tip the boat crew so they can "live the dream"?

Don't be a hater. It sounds almost punitive when you say you don't want to tip so someone else can live the dream. If you don't want to tip a dm, there is always the option of getting a boat and going out by yourself. As far as being a dream job, dealing with people at any level can be trying. Personally, being a DM would be awful.

So the dive operator pays the dm's a fair price but now has to raise the fee for the dives. In the end, you won't be out of pocket any less.