Tina Watson Death - The Full Story

[Divedoggie]

Kreed,
Thank you for your last post and for your continued discussion. It is courageous of you to post your thoughts and feelings on a public forum, and your last post was thoughtful and clear. It gives us some real insight as to the immature, unkind, and warped relationship that you all experienced.

Strictly from a diving perspective, the physics, the way people behave underwater, the way TERRIFIED people behave underwater, the similarity to other events that have been witnessed underwater, and not having any connection to anyone involved, I have to step back and say that it was a horrible accident.

I think that if you wanted to narrow this down to one exact cause; it is the stupid little game where if Gabe would be taking part in the things Tina liked to do, so Tina would have to take part in the things Gabe liked to do. Tina was pressured into getting certified in an activity that terrified her, and ultimately IMO that is what brought about this horrible tragedy.

 

[clownfishsydney]

Like all accidents, it is not one simple thing that caused Tina to die. It is a series of things, all of which multiplied on top of each other and led to the final outcome. If any of these had been removed, even one, then Tina would not have died.

1 Tina learning to dive to please Gabe
2 The dive instructor certifying Tina without making her do dives that could have properly assessed her abilities and disposition to be a scuba diver
3 Dive agencies hype that made Gabe believe that if you are certified as a "xxxx diver" then you are an experienced xxxx diver
4 Whoever advised Gabe to record dives in his log book that were not really dives and thus overstating his level of experience
5 MBDE waiver form that does not ask about the number of ocean dives that a person has done when this is the factor that divers are assessed on
6 Wade Singleton interviewing Gabe and Tina together in breach of MBDE rules and Queensland law
7 Wade Singleton not enforcing the MBDE rules and Queensland law in letting Gabe and Tina dive together without supervision
8 Tina panicking
9 Gabe panicking
10 Gabe making a wrong decision to go for help

Even though Gabe has more points above, he should still not be held responsible as the main cause of this accident. It lies with far more experienced people than him. As I keep pointing out, he was a novice diver himself who was not capable of making a decision as to whether he was suitable as an appropriate dive buddy for Tina in the conditions prevailing.

Kreed, your anger at losing someone dear to you is understandable. However, the anger needs to be addressed equally to all the persons who have blame in this matter.

 

[boulderjohn]

L
2 Tina getting certified without doing dives that could have properly assessed her abilities and disposition to be a scuba diver
3 Gabe believing dive agency hype that if you are certified as a "xxxx diver" then you are an experienced xxxx diver

Points 2 and 3 grammatically turn the situation around by making the true objects of the sentences the subjects. The true subject of each sentence is the instructor/agency.

As you may recall from the other thread, I am interested in the instruction that both Gabe and Tina had. Both were certified NASDS, an agency that no longer exists by that name but has actually become SSI. (The two merged under the SSI name, and then the former NASDS owner purchased the merged SSI and is running it using the NASDS model.) I am sure that NASDS standards were consistent with industry standards a the time, and the agency cannot be blamed if an individual instructor fails to instruct and certify students according to its standards. I have heard that there were questions about both, but especially about the depth of Gabe's training for Rescue Diver. I would be interested in knowing if there was any question about the quality of the instruction they received in relation to those standards during either the investigation or the trial.

 

[Lookmanohands]

Michael, I have a question for you as well as any other married divers on here. Did you and your spouse get certified at the same time, prior to meeting each other or the other got certified after getting together?

Divegdoggie you have to remember when you make a character judgment, the Watson camp has not aired one piece of dirty undies about the Thomas'. I would not read too much into what the Thomas' family says Gabe and Tina's relationship was like because just as many on the other side place the nastyness on the Thomas family and their misplaced grief because of how they treated Tina while she was alive. The Watson camp so to speak has just decided not to stoop to that level and make that stuff public and I don't believe they will. Even though I have begged Gabe to drop the bomb from his file drawer, for now I will respect his wishes.

I believe the fact that not one of Gabe's ex's were put on the stand or have come forward saying he was a bad guy should be given some weight. Not even the one he dumped for Tina and she was interviewed by Helena PD's Lt. Barney Flynn. You don't just wake up one day mid 20's and decide to be abusive and mean. There is a trail to follow. I mean seriously, how many of us could honestly say we would call our ex's as character witnesses. I sure as hell wouldn't call mine. They would probably offer to pull the switch.

Kgirl, please keep posting your facts, it gives me the giggles.

 

[K_girl]

DiveDoggie - thank you for bringing us all together. Excellent job. The problem here is that everyone wants everyone else to see the case from their own perspective as to what is important - and I'm no different.

For those who continuously tell Kreed to ignore his personal experience with his family and focus strictly on the technicalities of the law - well, they simply don't get it. Yes, we know that because of the technicalities of the law that Watson can never be tried, much less convicted of murdering his wife. And yes, we know that Tina's family will have to find a way to let go of that. And yes, we have to have the laws we have in order to protect our individual rights. Our system of justice has the following creed: "better that a guilty man go free than an innocent man be convicted." But that doesn't mean that the family who feels victimized has to be convinced that justice was necessarily served for them. The best we can hope for families who have lost loved ones to suspicious circumstances or plea-bargained cases is that they find a way to move on.

But what Kreed is saying and none of us can deny, is that he and his family has personal experience with Gabe Watson that we do not have. They have personal experience much of which, is hearsay and not admissible in a court of law. A jury is not allowed to hear that Tina told her father that Gabe Watson wanted her to up her insurance and change it to his name before their wedding. Tina's father is the one who understands his daughter. He is the one who looked back on that moment and realized something just wasn't right about it. If I was in his place and I was called into my son-in-law's attorney's office days after the death of my daughter and told - what belonged to her now belongs to me and you need to hand it over, would be more than I could bear. Certainly, the insurance incident with Tina would come to have much more meaning. Especially since it was Gabe's actions who put Tina in harm's way. They did not want Tina to dive. They were in shock that she was going to do it. They tried to talk her out of it, but she insisted that Watson was a rescue diver and would take care of her. Now this guy who pushed her into diving, she winds up dead, and he wants all her stuff. He won't even look you in the eye or talk to you. He just wants her stuff. How insenstive is that? Especially if you know how poorly he treated your daughter.

Kreed is going to believe his uncle because he knows his uncle. It doesn't help this family to try and shove the technicalities of the law down their throat. Watson's behavior was awful in so many ways. Too numerous to even mention. I don't think it is a good idea to be calling Tina's friend a liar about the "perky breast" comment. If it is true (and we don't that it is, if you want to call people liars) that Watson was invited to some event, it could have very well been for some specific purpose. Such as - he felt free enough to make such a stupid comment in the first place, maybe he would say something even more to "enlighten" Tina's friend on his behavior if he felt he was being accepted. Perhaps he might make some sort of admission. So the whole - she wouldn't do that if blah... blah.. is worthless in my opinion. There was not just one person that observed Gabe Watson's behavior, let's not forget. Including Tina's dive instructor who tried to talk her out of diving because he could see she was being pushed into it. That is far more straight-forward than trying to interpret the supposed invitation of Gabe to some event. i.e. Gabe was yelling at Tina for what he thought she was doing wrong and telling her she has to learn how to dive because he's really a good guy and he really thought that would be the best thing for her. uh - really? I don't think so. I can't remember who Gabe said this to, but he told them he wanted Tina to learn how to dive because she needed to do what he wanted in order for them to have a relationship and that's what he wanted. It didn't matter if it scared the holy heck out of her. It is pure selfishness and arrogance, and nothing else. Watson's statement was basically an admission of that. There is no other way to interpret that kind of behavior. Some things can have multiple interpretations and some things can't. The ring and pizza-throwing events have no good other explanations and that is how I have viewed much of this. As for anything else that can be explained in some other way, it just becomes a very long string of "explanations" and after a while you just have to say - the guy is a real ass. Just no other way to look at. I'm not saying he is a murderer, I'm just saying he's an ass. Even if Tina were alive today and nothing happened, I would still think that any man who treated a woman the way Watson treated Tina, is an ass and I would dislike him.

The person with the biggest culpability for Tina's death is Watson. He is the one who pushed her into diving. He is the one who convinced her she didn't need an orientation dive. He is the one who convinced her he could take care of her. He is the one who convinced Tina to get in the water a second time, even with the strong currents and that he could still take care of her. He is the one who never even attempted to inflate her BC, even when he had a hold of her, but was capable of handling his mask being knocked off his face. He is the one who left her when he knew she needed him. He is the one who left her even though he had plenty of air and no deco - because he just got in the water. He is the one who left her even though he said he didn't want to leave her because he was afraid she would be lost. Everything about him speaks control, manipulation, self-absorption and arrogance. Unfortunately, the dive operator believed his macho crap, which was one mistake the chain of many, but most of the mistakes belong to Gabe Watson. He is the most culpable.

 

[clownfishsydney]

Mike Moore who did the same courses with Gabe stated that the training was not all that great and that he certainly did not consider that Gabe and he were experienced divers. The instructor said he did not cut corners in any of his courses. Gabe's only dive on the rescue course (according to his log book) was 10 minutes long. Many of the other dives he did on courses were very short. Tina's four dives on her Open Water course were 11, 15, 15 and 17 minutes long. In Australia at that time, they would not have enabled you to become a qualified diver as all dives had to be at least 20 minutes long. She would also have not qualified as the dives did not go deep enough nor was the total time over 100 minutes as required.

Kelly and I met because of diving. I gave a talk about Chuuk Lagoon to the club of which she was a member. I have met people, both male and females, who only learnt to dive because of their spouse. Most took to it, but there have been a couple who really never dived again. This applies as equal to the male spouse.

Yes, there are a lot of "dirty undies" out there. I know most if not all, but I have chosen not to air them. The authors of Honeymoon Dive also chose not to air them. The Watsons have also chosen not to air them. I will never air them, nor I suspect will the Watsons.

Gabe's two ex-girlfriends were, I believe, both going to testify at the trial. From what I have read of their statements and also of emails between Gabe and one (after they had parted company), there was no evidence that Gabe was a control freak or abusive. To the contrary, the one who was questioned and asked to produce a statement clearly stated that Gabe was not like this.

Kreed, is I believe, is a she, not a he.

What is wrong with Gabe asking Tina to up her insurance before the marriage? They had just purchased a house together, Tina had a new car, they were becomign man and wife. It is prudent to consider and do things like this. Kelly and I certainly did all these things well before we got married. It is only sensible to do this.

K_girl you are wrong, Gabe does not have have the biggest cupability in Tina's death. It does not matter even if he did convince Tina that she should not have done the orientation dive, it was Wade Singleton's responsibility as trip director (as he admitted at the trial) to insist that she did it. He was even asked at the trial if the word "must" has a different meaning in Australia than in the US as the rules stated that she must do the orientation. Not, may, should or could, MUST. He did not make her do it as he should have. There is no evidence that Gabe "convinced" Tina to get in the water a second time.

Tina's instrcutor has never, to my knowledge, said he tried to talk Tina out of diving. Where is the evidence of this? Certainly not in his statements or evidence. I also do not believe that there is any evidence that Gabe was present at Tina's training at Blue Water Quarry apart from a mention in Honeymoon Dive. Again, there is nothing in any statement or given as evidence at the Coroner's Inquest or trial about this.

 

[bleeb]

Like all accidents, it is not one simple thing that caused Tina to die. It is a series of things, all of which multiplied on top of each other and led to the final outcome. If any of these had been removed, even one, then Tina would not have died.

1 Tina learning to dive to please Gabe
2 Tina getting certified without doing dives that could have properly assessed her abilities and disposition to be a scuba diver
3 Gabe believing dive agency hype that if you are certified as a "xxxx diver" then you are an experienced xxxx diver
4 Gabe recording dives that were not really dives and thus overstating his level of experience
5 MBDE waiver form that does not ask about the number of ocean dives that a person has done when this is the factor that divers are assessed on
6 Wade Singleton interviewing Gabe and Tina together in breach of MBDE rules and Queensland law
7 Wade Singleton not enforcing the MBDE rules and Queensland law in letting Gabe and Tina dive together without supervision
8 Tina panicking
9 Gabe panicking
10 Gabe making a wrong decision to go for help

I can't remember who said it, but someone recently posted in this thread that Tina was, to paraphrase, near panic during her each of her checkout dives. A common opinion that's been repeatedly brought up in the Accidents and Incidents forum after many events is that the instructor should not have certified someone if they can't dive somewhat calmly. If the instructor did indeed issue a card to someone who couldn't dive without being emotionally overwhelmed to the point of self-endangerment, I think he or she should maybe be included in your list as well.

 

[Ayisha]

...Tina's instrcutor has never, to my knowledge, said he tried to talk Tina out of diving. Where is the evidence of this? Certainly not in his statements or evidence.

Yes, I believe there was some conversation about that between the instructor and Tina. Her response according to the instructo was something to the effect that Gabe would kill her if she didn't get certified.

 

[clownfishsydney]

Beeb, point 2 covers this. She only panicked once during training as far as I can see.

Ayisha, no, the instructor did not say she said this. The "quote" you have mentioned was from the dive master. He said in his statement that Tina said it in a joking manner (not exact words, but this was the meaning). The dive master did also say something like "you do not have to be here".

 

[Divedoggie]

Clownfishsydney, I completely agree point by point with your list of causes and with the logic that the removal of any one of the links in the chain of events, would have prevented Tina's death.
I just wanted to try to pinpoint the catalyst. I don't think that Tina would have ever pursued diving on her own. Being pressured into it IMO started the entire chain of events. I don't know, maybe it started with the dynamics of the relationship...

Lookmanohands, I didn't intend to make a character judgement. I only commented on the nature of the relationship.
I've been very aware that all of information has been coming from the press and from the Thomas camp. But it takes two to tango. Arguments, pizza fights, dating, getting engaged and married, planning a honeymoon to the Great Barrier Reef for scuba diving, all take two to do.
Regardless of who said what or did whatever or who started things all doesn't matter, imo the young couple behaved immaturely and disrespectfully. Is that a character judgement? If so, I apologize.

I have been an advocate for Gabe because I firmly believe that the chain of events as outlined by clownfishsydney and discussed and clarified repeatedly, is exactly correct. Standing back as a professional diver, unbiased without actually knowing the personalities involved, I am sure that the courts, Dr Edmonds, and Clownfishsidney have got it right. I don't have to like Gabe to be his advocate, because I also think that, based on what we've all been told, K_girl has largely got it right as well.

There is an opportunity here.

Kreed is spending a little time poking around here and the tone has shifted a bit.
Lookmanohands is poking around here a bit and I would encourage a little softer tone....
Please keep reading and keep posting.

Everyone attached to the two families has suffered way too much and for way too long.