CRDiver
Contributor
Looks like the Explorer is officially "old news" at Halcyon... All you drones, you know what to do!!! 
http://www.halcyon.net/mc/Halcyon_EvolveMC.pdf
http://www.halcyon.net/mc/Halcyon_EvolveMC.pdf
Throw away your Explorer - the Halcyon Evolve is here
- Thread starter CRDiver
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Looks like this one comes purely from a marketing decision. I reckon they're beginning to feel the pressure from the competition.
...just another disappointing move by Halcyon.
...just another disappointing move by Halcyon.
ROFL... I wonder how long it will take all the people who have said "a horsehoe design is better for doubles" to come around to "no one should ever use a horsehoe wing"....
ianr33
Contributor
And ONLY $385 !!!
true
Registered
Chris, if you are no longer a Halcyon dealer, let me know so I can remove you from the distribution list. As point of reference, the Explorer will always be part of the Halcyon product line. The Evolve design has been requested for over two years and has been through scores of variations during testing. The wing has different characteristics in the water from an Explorer; the majority of testers preferred the new wing, but there will always be a place for both designs.
I have been trying to open that pdf all day from three diffeent boards.CRDiver:Looks like the Explorer is officially "old news" at Halcyon... All you drones, you know what to do!!!
http://www.halcyon.net/mc/Halcyon_EvolveMC.pdf
Still can't open it.
KOMPRESSOR
Contributor
true:
You seem to be my guy for advice. I am looking at the Evolve for two reasons. It's less wide than the Explorer (Which IS wide...), and it's shaped like my beloved Eclipse.
Now what would be the benefits of this design for doubles compared to a horse shoe shape? In my part of the world steel is the word. -Only steel... And it will be a set of Worthington's 12 litre/ 232 bar (Sorry, don't know the US measures) when I get around to it + a Fundis course in the spring...
By the way, today I'm diving with the Eclipse 40 set up with single 12 litres 300 bar /4500 psi. Longe and heavy, but excellent for my body (Long and heavy...)
cool_hardware52
Contributor
jonnythan:
Jonnythan,
My position has always been that if doubles could be managed with Horseshoe Wings, the "donuts or nothing crowd" for singles were overplaying their hand.
I do believe that most do not realize how wings really work, and how gas really moves from one side to the other and how differently Double Tanks fit the divers VS a Single Tank.
In use at depth, the typical wing is 20-50% full, often less for Drysuit Divers. If you are horizontal this amount of gas will form a "Horseshoe" shape, i.e. along both sides of the tank and across the top arc of the wing, even if the wing is a donut.
For gas to move from one side to the other through the connection at the bottom of the wing it would have to travel downhill, under the lower end of the tank. This won't happen unless you are butt up. If horizontal the gas will communicate through the top arc. You might think it's moving down under the tank, but it's not.
Now when do we dump gas? For me it's usually during ascents. I don't often ascend butt first, makes venting the DS kinda problematic!
I do on occassion vent via the OPV when head down, if I have added too much gas during a descent, for ex low vis and the bottom jumps out and I hit the brakes. With the added mass of doubles, and the likelyhood that I can be pretty negative at the start of a dive in doubles, this is more of a problem, than in a single tank.
Unlike some other manufacturers, I do not make a "donut" singles wing, as IMHO, a well designed, narrow horseshoe, will perform as well, without the inherent manufacturing compromises a donut design imposes.
I do offer a full circle design for doubles. If can be seen here
rear view
Divers Side
The full circle design does offer some benefits, but in no way obsoletes the horseshoe design for doubles.
As a designer I enjoy periods of dynamic change, before ideas get "boiled down" to one or maybe a few solutions.
It appears that in the period of a only a few days Halcyon, Oxycheq, and DeepSeaSupply have all announced some type of "Full Circle" wing for Doubles.
There are differences in:
Construction method, i.e. Bladderless vs Sewn Outer with Urethane inner Bladder,
Overall profile,
Volume of the lower cross over.
It will be interesting to see which design elements prevale, and which "crash on the rocks" Will success be a function of inherent superiority, or marketing? Time will tell!
Tobin
I totally agree Tobin, and I appreciate your response. I saw your announcement about your new wings on TDS and think they look pretty slick.. I may end up getting one for my double 80s.
I was poking some fun at the divers who have for a long time said that a horseshoe wing is far superior for doubles... and I'm sure at least a few will, within the next year, say that a donut wing is better for doubles. Now that Halcyon has one
I was poking some fun at the divers who have for a long time said that a horseshoe wing is far superior for doubles... and I'm sure at least a few will, within the next year, say that a donut wing is better for doubles. Now that Halcyon has one
grouchyturtle
Contributor
Hmm...a lot of what Tobin said makes sense but all I know is "I love my Eclipse!"
The one thing that's bothered me, since I started diving doubles is the wing. I like the donut style wings much more than the horseshoe. The valve on my drysuit is in a position that it almost dumps its self when ascending even without being slightly head up, so I find it much easier to use the pull dump than the exhaust on the hose, but this doesn't work nearly as well in with the Explorer as it does with the Eclipse.
Also as KOMPRESSOR said, the Eclipse is much more streamlined than the Explorer. I was actually planning on posting in the gear forum and asking, why the hell no has made a donut doubles wing, and the very same day I saw the announcement.
Since I've dumped all my steel tanks, the 55# wing I started with is too big, so I was planning on getting a 40# wing anyway. Needless to say, my Evolve has already been ordered, and for only $30 more than an Explorer.
I can't believe all those other companies already announced donut doubles wings! The Evolve hasn't even shipped yet. I just can't wait until we see the 100# double bladder bungee donut!
The one thing that's bothered me, since I started diving doubles is the wing. I like the donut style wings much more than the horseshoe. The valve on my drysuit is in a position that it almost dumps its self when ascending even without being slightly head up, so I find it much easier to use the pull dump than the exhaust on the hose, but this doesn't work nearly as well in with the Explorer as it does with the Eclipse.
Also as KOMPRESSOR said, the Eclipse is much more streamlined than the Explorer. I was actually planning on posting in the gear forum and asking, why the hell no has made a donut doubles wing, and the very same day I saw the announcement.
Since I've dumped all my steel tanks, the 55# wing I started with is too big, so I was planning on getting a 40# wing anyway. Needless to say, my Evolve has already been ordered, and for only $30 more than an Explorer.
I can't believe all those other companies already announced donut doubles wings! The Evolve hasn't even shipped yet. I just can't wait until we see the 100# double bladder bungee donut!
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