Three dives in one day against the rules?

[beester]

Hmm,

CMAS can set any standard and try to 'enforce' them as much as they want to. That is their prerogative. If their standards say 'no more than x number of dives/day and they must be done in y sequence'..... then by this, one will comply with these rules and standards. Simple enough.

You have to make up your mind about whether you want to live by these rules and standards and be told by members of the affiliated clubs. This is not a legal/judicial debate, but rather a self imposed set of criteria someone can either live with or not.

I promise you, if you break the rules here, you will not go to jail. You may get hurt if you don't know what you are doing, but that will be taken on as personal accountability,........ right? If you can not live with that prospect, maybe having self imposed rules works best for you. It's decision time.....

Very true. As far as I know there is (luckely) no scuba-police and no scuba-license. In fact you don't even need to have a certificate in most European countries to dive. Feel free to do so without any certification or training whatsoever (I don't know how this works in the USA).

However (and this is the catch!), people are equally free to disallow you on their boat or in their group to dive with them if you can' t provide some 'proof' of training or insurance. The point being safety and also liability! With PADI you need to insure yourselve (insurance not linked to the certification card). Let's take DAN as en example. I'm quite sure that if you as a DAN insured diver, dive without any certification whatsoever or blatantly outside the limit of your certification level that they might have some words to say to you after you request them to pay the bill for your helicopter ride to the decoroom.

The same goes for CMAS. I'm insured through my agency. My agency can't force me to adhere to the rules set out by them (it's a free world). But the small print on my insurance states that I have to adhere to the rules laid out in my certification (level). So if my blood starts to bubble after an air dive to 300 feet (outside my certification lvl) and I need help... I will get it but my insurance won't foot the bill.

PS: If I was a 4 * CMAS diver diving to 300 feet or doing a very deep deco dive and something happend insurance would pay the bill since that IS within CMAS certification level for a 4 * diver (no depth limit). Sensible no... will insurance pay... yes.

 

[mania]

And yes, CMAS despises PADI - won't recognise the card as equal.

Well... this is not true. There is a CMAS/PADI agreement on levels - it was signed in 1998.
http://www.soc.soton.ac.uk/OTHERS/SDSC/cmaspadi.html

Mania

 

[shoredivr]

Thanks, beester, that was very informative. I was hoping someone with CMAS would post.

 

[mania]

I just found out that in fact CMAS standards do allow 3 dives per day. At least CMAS in Poland says so...

Mania

 

[mislav]

Thanks, beester, that was very informative. I was hoping someone with CMAS would post.

Ditto here. Thanks.

On successive dives CMAS: The following rules apply
Recreational dives (up to 100 feet depth): Unlimited successive dives depending on N2 saturation level / tables.
Deep dives (between 100 and 187 feet depth): 1 successive dive allowed.
Extreme dives (deeper than 187 feet): No successive dives allowed.

If 2nd or successive dives becomes a deco-dive or because of circumstances ends up deeper then 100 feet then no more successive dives are allowed.

So, according to these rules, both me and they were right. I was right because the dives on that day were less than 30m/100ft deep and in the correct succession to make three or more dives and they were right because indeed there is a rule within CMAS that limits the number of dives in one day under specific circumstances.

The final verdict being that with the profiles of those dives (22m/18m/11m) there shouldn't have been any fuss over making those dives under CMAS rules.

 

[mania]

Exactly

Mania

 

[evil_xander]

The final verdict being that with the profiles of those dives (22m/18m/11m) there shouldn't have been any fuss over making those dives under CMAS rules.

I wonder what they would say about the dive profiles we had done the weekend before that. Me being OWD and everything...

 

[enjoyingthesun]

"CMAS training is state of the art"

That's a statement I would take issue with.

Let's take a couple of examples.

German CMAS 1* diver turns up where I was working needing a check out dive and we found he had never done (and couldn't do, despite a lot of work) full mask clearing.

Two French CMAS 1* divers arrive for a day boat trip, neither of them had never been taught to use a BCD.

The other common problem was CMAS-trained divers turning up without an AAS because they had only been taught buddy breathing.

I went through nearly eight years of working under, or in conjunction with, CMAS instructors and it left me with a very uneasy feeling about the quality of divers they were turning out. Where I was the CMAS AI course was little more than a series of swim tests and the instructor course was clearly "borrowed" from the PADI IDC.

I think one problem is that CMAS confuses 'tough' with 'thorough' which means you get a high drop out rate and a lot of students who end up just wanting to get the course over with. In simple terms they work so hard to survive the harassment, they don't learn much.

I'm not at this stage defending PADI, because I think they have gone steadily down hill over the past years, but to hold CMAS up as state of the art is pushing things more than a bit.

One interesting fact is that, while we used to teach CMAS, the certification issued was always PADI. Sometimes the PICs were signed by an instructor who never even saw the students.

As for depth limits? We worked to a 100' (30 metre) depth limit. Max two guided dives a day for instructors/DMs plus the odd night dive. You could do as many try dives as you wanted but they had a 12' (4 metre) limit. If the first dive of the day was to 100' we started it 30 minutes earlier than the slightly shallower dives (9:30 am rather than 10:00 am) and the second dive was at 2:00 pm. Three minute safety stops were mandatory is you went to 60" (18 metres) or deeper. Night dives were kept to under 20' (7 metres).

That said, the CMAS 3* certification (the first level I attained, we skipped 1* and 2* on the strength of my PADI certs) allowed me to dive to 42 metres solo for 'commercial purposes' and BSAC (which was then CMAS-affiliated) worked to a 165' (50 metre) maximum.

 

[beester]

Ditto here. Thanks.


So, according to these rules, both me and they were right. I was right because the dives on that day were less than 30m/100ft deep and in the correct succession to make three or more dives and they were right because indeed there is a rule within CMAS that limits the number of dives in one day under specific circumstances.

The final verdict being that with the profiles of those dives (22m/18m/11m) there shouldn't have been any fuss over making those dives under CMAS rules.

Yes... I would say so. I of course do not know how the internal rules are of the club... but if they do prohibit doing more than 2 dives a day they should not say CMAS does not allow... but WE do not allow. :14:

 

[Footslogger]

They replied: "CMAS and our club strictly forbids to go for three dives in one day!"

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If that is true either/both CMAS or that dive club sure wouldn't get their money's worth out of liveaboard trip.