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Thread Split - Unable to breathe
- Thread starter Cave Diver
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You can ask someone to write in as themselves and say, "someone asked me to relate this incident..." No violation there.
Perhaps you may have heard about the "broken window" theory related to crime rates and resident behavior. Perhaps you have heard of the Disney theory of keeping areas clean. The first theory is that ugly, broken down neighborhoods in which petty crimes are tolerated breed more crimes and lead to a place where no one wants to live. The second theory is that no one wants to throw the first piece of litter, so if you keep the grounds clean, you have less cleanup to do because people will be more likely to dispose of their trash properly. If instead people are surrounded by litter, they are likely to toss their wrappers down as well.
I think the same thing is true of all social situations, from chambers of commerce to discussion boards. People take their cues for behavior from what they see being done around them. The norms of behavior are dictated by what other people do. In a discussion board, a few rude and prolific posters set a tone, and others will take the cue to pile on. If insulting new divers for a lack of knowledge is shown to be acceptable, then more and more people will do it, and before long you have an uninviting forum dominated by rude behavior.
One solution, as has been suggested, is to have a very active squad of moderators (and yes, we are called the Mod Squad) nipping such trends in the bud, but that is not the method I prefer. There is a well known sociological theory (that I don't want to go into here because it would take too long) that says that this creates a regulated society in which everyone sits back and lets things happen while waiting for the "police" to step in and enforce carefully written rules. A better approach is to have a community that understands norms of behavior and polices itself by both adhering to those norms and by reminding others of them as necessary. Although I do encourage people to hit the report button, a better approach is for people to make posts reminding the offender that such behavior is not within the norms of the forum. There have been many occasions when an offending post is reported, and when the mods discuss it in the back room, they see that the problem post has already been dealt with beautifully by other people in the thread, so there is no need for action. If that could happen all the time, this would be an ideal forum; the less visible moderation needed the better.
I think the same thing is true of all social situations, from chambers of commerce to discussion boards. People take their cues for behavior from what they see being done around them. The norms of behavior are dictated by what other people do. In a discussion board, a few rude and prolific posters set a tone, and others will take the cue to pile on. If insulting new divers for a lack of knowledge is shown to be acceptable, then more and more people will do it, and before long you have an uninviting forum dominated by rude behavior.
One solution, as has been suggested, is to have a very active squad of moderators (and yes, we are called the Mod Squad) nipping such trends in the bud, but that is not the method I prefer. There is a well known sociological theory (that I don't want to go into here because it would take too long) that says that this creates a regulated society in which everyone sits back and lets things happen while waiting for the "police" to step in and enforce carefully written rules. A better approach is to have a community that understands norms of behavior and polices itself by both adhering to those norms and by reminding others of them as necessary. Although I do encourage people to hit the report button, a better approach is for people to make posts reminding the offender that such behavior is not within the norms of the forum. There have been many occasions when an offending post is reported, and when the mods discuss it in the back room, they see that the problem post has already been dealt with beautifully by other people in the thread, so there is no need for action. If that could happen all the time, this would be an ideal forum; the less visible moderation needed the better.
PMing the offending perp your concerns is often better than reporting it or replying to the egregious post. If I feel a need to publicly point out boorish behavior (other than my own), I am careful to have at least a good portion of my post remain completely on topic.
Great day in the mornin'!
Between the two threads, over 125 posts from this (!)...
The answer, Ben, is "no, there's no reason Nitrox could have anything to do with the problem."
Now we can go on to discuss valves, regulators, filters and anxiety, and perhaps a couple of really obscure possibilities for the problem. The 120 posts on everything *but* the problem are mainly blamestorming of the worst kind... blamestorming without a shred of basis.
Rick (standing by for heavy rolls
)
Between the two threads, over 125 posts from this (!)...
This just ain't that hard, folks. The OP asks an innocent question... and the next thing you know his instructor, his class, his background and everything but his parentage is questioned! There's just no reason for it. His allusion to Nitrox and "Any ideas why...?" is (1) saying "I can't think of any reason based on my training" (good training! there is no reason) and (2) asking "is there something I missed?" and the answer is simply "nope." No need to extrapolate any lack of training or knowledge there... just answer the question!
The answer, Ben, is "no, there's no reason Nitrox could have anything to do with the problem."
Now we can go on to discuss valves, regulators, filters and anxiety, and perhaps a couple of really obscure possibilities for the problem. The 120 posts on everything *but* the problem are mainly blamestorming of the worst kind... blamestorming without a shred of basis.
Rick (standing by for heavy rolls
)
ScubaSteve
Wow.....what a DB
Great day in the mornin'!
Between the two threads, over 125 posts from this (!)...
This just ain't that hard, folks. The OP asks an innocent question... and the next thing you know his instructor, his class, his background and everything but his parentage is questioned! There's just no reason for it. His allusion to Nitrox and "Any ideas why...?" is (1) saying "I can't think of any reason based on my training" (good training! there is no reason) and (2) asking "is there something I missed?" and the answer is simply "nope." No need to extrapolate any lack of training or knowledge there... just answer the question!
The answer, Ben, is "no, there's no reason Nitrox could have anything to do with the problem."
Now we can go on to discuss valves, regulators, filters and anxiety, and perhaps a couple of really obscure possibilities for the problem. The 120 posts on everything *but* the problem are mainly blamestorming of the worst kind... blamestorming without a shred of basis.
Rick (standing by for heavy rolls
Shouldn't this go in the other (actual) thread and not the spin off?
Ben Prusinski
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Well let's leave aside the critiques of my scuba training as PADI is the governing authority and issues with the quality of it should be taken up with them. Like I said earlier, I have seen experienced certified divers and instructors make horrible mistakes on the few dives I've been on.
And on this:
Actually au contraire, if the nitrox mix is tainted by CO2 then yeah you could get poisoned and have an accident. This is why we analyze the nitrox mix as I was taught in class. If you think the tank has 36% EAN and it is really 32% EAN without your knowledge due to operator error it will cause problems.
Unfortunately, I was on a boat and did not have an expensive analyzer with me to check the mix. Guess I need to spend the $500 for my own CO2 analyzer and EAN oxygen analyzer next time to verify the air quality of whats in my tanks as part of my pre-dive checks. That Cozumel lady diver died recently from CO2 poisoning.
I will ignore the critiques on how bad my training sucked or how poor of a diver I am from Jim and the other posters. To me it really does not affect me as I am a newbie and should not be expected to be at the skill level of a tech diver with 20+ years experience and 2000 dives under my belt. And I have not found another scuba board for new divers other than this one. As a new diver, I did the best I could without panic in a tough life threatening situation.
And on this:
Actually au contraire, if the nitrox mix is tainted by CO2 then yeah you could get poisoned and have an accident. This is why we analyze the nitrox mix as I was taught in class. If you think the tank has 36% EAN and it is really 32% EAN without your knowledge due to operator error it will cause problems.
Unfortunately, I was on a boat and did not have an expensive analyzer with me to check the mix. Guess I need to spend the $500 for my own CO2 analyzer and EAN oxygen analyzer next time to verify the air quality of whats in my tanks as part of my pre-dive checks. That Cozumel lady diver died recently from CO2 poisoning.
I will ignore the critiques on how bad my training sucked or how poor of a diver I am from Jim and the other posters. To me it really does not affect me as I am a newbie and should not be expected to be at the skill level of a tech diver with 20+ years experience and 2000 dives under my belt. And I have not found another scuba board for new divers other than this one. As a new diver, I did the best I could without panic in a tough life threatening situation.
ScubaSteve
Wow.....what a DB
Since the thread has split I might have forgotten part of the original problem but I thought it was that the tank/regs simply stopped delivering gas. Am I mistaken? If that is the case, then there is absolutely no way it had anything to do with the gas contained in it. Au contraire nothing. If the original problem was that it simply seemed that you were not getting enough oxygen with each breath then yes, you could be correct.
EDIT
THE OP
I settle on au contraire nothing.
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Just to clarify, Ben ... what you're referring to is CO, not CO2.
CO2 is the waste gas you exhale ... a byproduct of your body's use of the oxygen you breathe in.
CO is the waste gas of a motor that powers the compressor used to fill your cylinder.
When CO2 builds up in your body, it makes you feel like you aren't getting enough air ... and can cause a lot of anxiety.
When CO is in your gas mix and you breathe it, it makes you pass out ... which is really bad for you underwater.
The analyzer you're referring to tests for carbon monoxide (CO) ... ask Dandy Don about those, he's the guy on this board who's put real effort into publicizing the issue.
Carbon dioxide (CO2) buildup is best managed by controlling your breathing rate ... and if you're feeling the effects of "I can't get enough air" underwater, by stopping your exertion and relaxing for a few moments.
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
You know, there are times when I read a question from somebody and my immediate reaction is, "How could anybody who's certified to dive not know that?" I could write that in the thread. I could say, "You should have been taught this in your Nitrox class." But as Matt accurately observes, there is little purpose to writing either of those things. Whether the student failed to learn or the instructor failed to teach, the end result is that the person is here, on ScubaBoard, asking the question. What serves a purpose is patiently and thoroughly to explain the answer. Not only will the OP perhaps learn something, but anyone later who finds the thread may, as well.
If someone posts several questions that indicate that their education was extraordinarily poor, a PM to the person, politely inquiring about the class, may open a dialogue that allows you to raise the idea that some remedial education may be in order.
If someone posts several questions that indicate that their education was extraordinarily poor, a PM to the person, politely inquiring about the class, may open a dialogue that allows you to raise the idea that some remedial education may be in order.
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