Thoughts on AI?

[Caveman]

In light of a recent discussion I had started with regards to the Perdix or the Petrel 2 being the better computer and conclusively it seems the Perdix is the better choice. However, I am rather torn between buying just the standard Perdix or spending a bit extra for the AI features.

I, personally, would not see myself using AI as I much prefer the reliability of the spg but I was hoping I could hear your thoughts on the matter; do tech divers like and/or make use of AI or is spg use still far more effective and preferred?

 

[PfcAJ]

Spg.

Keep it simple.

 

[Kevrumbo]

The extra digit in arithmetic with PSI units, especially when calculating on-the-fly actually makes it harder and less intuitive to work with, and the reason why divers who use US Imperial units may need the extra expense of a computer with Air Integration, Air Time Remaining & other digital logging features, versus a simple analog Bar SPG along with understanding practical manual arithmetic using the Metric System.

It's easier to do the equivalent arithmetic with two significant figures in bar pressure units versus three sig figs in psi: For example, what is easier to SEE and THINK in your head -->

200 minus 80 equals 120 bar ?
-or-
3000 minus 1160 equals 1840 psi ???

Another example:

Using an 11L Aluminium 80 tank with a 200bar starting pressure, I nominally consume 30 bar in five minutes at 18msw depth in temperate 15° C waters diving the Kelp Forest off Catalina Island into a current:

Five minutes elapsed time and my SPG should read 170bar -unclip & check it! It does. . .

Another five minutes for total Ten minutes elapsed time and my SPG should read 140bar -check! It does.

Fifteen minutes elapsed time and my SPG should read 110bar -check! It does.

Twenty minutes elapsed time and my SPG should read 80bar -check! It does,
and then start a multi-level ascent going back with the current to the shallows and vicinity of the Diveboat at 9msw & eventual safety stop. . . surface with 32 bar remaining and Thirty-Five minutes Total Dive Time.

Point is you don't need the extravagance of AI to perform this simple iterative subtraction above using bar metric mechanics. . .

 

[scubadada]

can of worms, this is SB

 

[Marie13]

I’m just starting with SM towards going tech. I’ve got two transmitters for my Perdix AI. SPGs are bungeed to my first stages. I see no reason to forgo AI. I like having all my info on my wrist.

 

[Caveman]

The extra digit in arithmetic with PSI units, especially when calculating on-the-fly actually makes it harder and less intuitive to work with, and the reason why divers who use US Imperial units may need the extra expense of a computer with Air Integration, Air Time Remaining & other digital logging features, versus a simple analog Bar SPG along with understanding practical manual arithmetic using the Metric System.

It's easier to do the equivalent arithmetic with two significant figures in bar pressure units versus three sig figs in psi: For example, what is easier to SEE and THINK in your head -->

200 minus 80 equals 120 bar ?
-or-
3000 minus 1160 equals 1840 psi ???

Another example:

Using an 11L Aluminium 80 tank with a 200bar starting pressure, I nominally consume 30 bar in five minutes at 18msw depth in temperate 15° C waters diving the Kelp Forest off Catalina Island into a current:

Five minutes elapsed time and my SPG should read 170bar -unclip & check it! It does. . .

Another five minutes for total Ten minutes elapsed time and my SPG should read 140bar -check! It does.

Fifteen minutes elapsed time and my SPG should read 110bar -check! It does.

Twenty minutes elapsed time and my SPG should read 80bar -check! It does,
and then start a multi-level ascent going back with the current to the shallows and vicinity of the Diveboat at 9msw & eventual safety stop. . . surface with 32 bar remaining and Thirty-Five minutes Total Dive Time.

Point is you don't need the extravagance of AI to perform this simple iterative subtraction above using bar metric mechanics. . .

Fantastic then. My country uses metric only and I was trained in it as well so the AI would be pointless. In my 82 dives to date, the SPG has never caused me any confusion once, and I know that the gauge information can be trusted; anything wireless can always develop issues

 

[hilljo88]

I love Perdix AI, will occasionally add spg for refundancy, but my experience is that if you replace batteries conservatively, Perdix AI is very robust. Spg hoses do fail, glass cracks, so they are not perfect either.

 

[boulderjohn]

A few years ago we had a thread in the tech forum, and IIRC, the original issue was whether Shearwater should offer AI on its computers, which were at that time pretty much 100% tech. Opinions were strongly against the idea, but a small group of individuals argued well in favor of it. I was in the majority in opposition, but my opposition was primarily along the lines of it isn't needed. A simple SPG does the trick fine--why add complicated and unnecessary technology?

Since then, most of my technical diving has been with sidemount divers, and they tend to like the AI. I see a fundamental difference, and I understand their preference.

When I am diving backmount doubles, I know first of all that I have way more gas than I should need for the dive, which is standard practice for technical diving. I should only have to be concerned about my gas supply if something goes wrong with my gear or if something goes wrong with the dive. So far neither has happened to me, at least to any significance, so every now and then I check my SPG to make sure everything is going along as expected. It isn't a big deal to do so, and I still do not see any reason to fork over the cash for an AI system that is not going to give me much benefit.

My sidemounted friends, on the other hand, get a real benefit. They have to change from one tank to the other on a regular basis, so it is a true benefit for them to have that information right there in front of them as they dive. I can see why they like it. I am myself trained in sidemount and have done a fair amount of it, but not much lately. I learned it for diving caves, and I have not done much cave diving of late. If I were to start doing that again with any real frequency, I can see myself giving the matter more thought.

As for decompression bottles, I don't see any need for it there. You are only on a bottle for a certain length of time, you should have way more than you need, and you should only have to be concerned about your gas level if something is going wrong.

 

[Caveman]

A few years ago we had a thread in the tech forum, and IIRC, the original issue was whether Shearwater should offer AI on its computers, which were at that time pretty much 100% tech. Opinions were strongly against the idea, but a small group of individuals argued well in favor of it. I was in the majority in opposition, but my opposition was primarily along the lines of it isn't needed. A simple SPG does the trick fine--why add complicated and unnecessary technology?

Since then, most of my technical diving has been with sidemount divers, and they tend to like the AI. I see a fundamental difference, and I understand their preference.

When I am diving backmount doubles, I know first of all that I have way more gas than I should need for the dive, which is standard practice for technical diving. I should only have to be concerned about my gas supply if something goes wrong with my gear or if something goes wrong with the dive. So far neither has happened to me, at least to any significance, so every now and then I check my SPG to make sure everything is going along as expected. It isn't a big deal to do so, and I still do not see any reason to fork over the cash for an AI system that is not going to give me much benefit.

My sidemounted friends, on the other hand, get a real benefit. They have to change from one tank to the other on a regular basis, so it is a true benefit for them to have that information right there in front of them as they dive. I can see why they like it. I am myself trained in sidemount and have done a fair amount of it, but not much lately. I learned it for diving caves, and I have not done much cave diving of late. If I were to start doing that again with any real frequency, I can see myself giving the matter more thought.

As for decompression bottles, I don't see any need for it there. You are only on a bottle for a certain length of time, you should have way more than you need, and you should only have to be concerned about your gas level if something is going wrong.

Hey John. Thanks for the input! Although not in the immediate future, I do plan on doing both sidemount and cave diving; not necessarily in conjunction with one another but I will be practicing in both. So for this eventuality, would you say that it may be useful to fork a little extra now rather than later wishing I had the option in sidemount diving and regretting it?

As an additional question, does the AI merely make an addition to the Perdix? It does not impact any of the normal features and the computer will be 100% the same? I only ask because it is often the case with technological items that when too many features are crammed in, the overall performance slows down, so I am curious if this is at all the case with diving computers.

 

[aquacat8]

I have an air integrated computer and I love it, I love the dive time remaining function that estimates how much more time I can expect my tank to last. For those who are not math inclined it’s great! But for some reason I mistakenly got really excited when I saw the title of this thread; I thought you meant AI as in artificial intelligence. AI made me think of robots and I’ve been thinking that I would like to have a robot dive buddy. If they can make sex-bots, why not dive bots? He would have to carry my tanks ;-)