Those health forms -- Truth or Consequences?

[Papa_Bear]

To answer a question asked: http://www.aquacatcruises.com/med statement.PDF

 

[k ellis]

To be clear, the simple answer is "no" because the shop is not a covered entity. Doesn't matter where the information is from, the law doesn't apply to dive shops.

Not meaning to be pedantic, but the difference is meaningful.

Agreed. Sorry but when you are the inside you tend to look at things from a simple point of view. (I mean they flat tell us we can not talk about it period as employees)A dive shop is not a health care provider. Thats what my point I was trying to make but I guess it came out wrong.

 

[boulderjohn]

Personally, I have seen questions about mental or psychological illnesses, that I think are intrusive. And difficult to answer as it doesn't properly define what it means by this. Anything on the DSM-IV?? I would argue with some of those as being categorised as 'illnesses'.

Also while it doesn't apply to me the question about past alcohol or drug abuse is also something that I would consider very intrusive and irrelevant. Current alcohol and drug abuse, sure, but in the past??

Please quote the precise words in the form, and identify the form.

 

[Sas]

Please quote the precise words in the form, and identify the form.

BSAC self declaration medical form:
13. Have you any history of mental or psychological illness of any kind,
fear of small spaces, crowds or panic attacks?
14. Have you any history of alcohol or drug abuse in the past five years?

PADI Medical form:
Have you ever had or do you currently have:
~ Behavioral health problems?
~ History of drug or alcohol abuse?

SSI Medical form:
Have you ever had or do you currently have:
- Behavioral health, mental or psychological problems (panic attack, fear of closed or open spaces)
- Recreational drug use or treatment for, or alcoholism in the past five years?

All are available online to look at if you so choose. Edit: Whilst I haven't done a PADI course I have had to sign forms that have been copied from the PADI form a number of times.

 

[boulderjohn]

To answer a question asked: http://www.aquacatcruises.com/med statement.PDF

And how does that link answer a question?

It is the standard RSTC medical form all right. If you read through the site, you see it is required if people want scuba instruction during the trip. It is not required for regular diving.

You have established that the medical form is required for instruction. Has anyone questioned that?

 

[boulderjohn]

PADI Medical form:
Have you ever had or do you currently have:
~ Behavioral health problems?
~ History of drug or alcohol abuse?

SSI Medical form:
Have you ever had or do you currently have:
- Behavioral health, mental or psychological problems (panic attack, fear of closed or open spaces)
- Recreational drug use or treatment for, or alcoholism in the past five years?
Both are available online to look at if you so choose. Edit: Whilst I haven't done a PADI course I have had to sign forms that have been copied from the PADI form a number of times.[/QUOTE]


It is possible that PADI Americas is different from your area. I don't know.

PADI and SSi both use the RSTC form. The language for both is actually the one you cite for SSI rather than PADI.

Yes, those are the questions.

Here is what you wrote:

And difficult to answer as it doesn't properly define what it means by this.

It does.

Also while it doesn't apply to me the question about past alcohol or drug abuse is also something that I would consider very intrusive and irrelevant. Current alcohol and drug abuse, sure, but in the past??

Would not within the past 5 years be considered current?

 

[Sas]

It is possible that PADI Americas is different from your area. I don't know.

PADI and SSi both use the RSTC form. The language for both is actually the one you cite for SSI rather than PADI.

Fair enough, either way my point still stands about how I think those are things people might not want to reveal about themselves.

It does.

No it doesn't. What is a behavioural health disorder? What is "Behavioral health, mental or psychological problems"? Is it only referring to the things in the bracket? And you also ignored the BSAC form "Have you any history of mental or psychological illness of any kind, fear of small spaces, crowds or panic attacks? "

Of any kind??? How are all mental disorders relevant to diving? I doubt this is the question's purpose and is instead more interested in anxiety disorders (so it should be more specific). Some disorders aren't in any way. I have a disorder, Asperger's, listed in the DSM-IV, but I certainly do not consider it a mental or psychological illness (I consider it a strength). So what do I put down? I don't want to have to be explaining to an operator about why this doesn't impact on my diving (most people have close to zero knowledge about Asperger's and imagine it to be like Rainman...).

The form is stupid and vague and often it won't actually protect the operator even if someone lies as in Australia you can't wave away liability completely. Just another bit of bureucratic nonsense due to a very litigious society, that I do not want to encourage.

Would not within the past 5 years be considered current?

No. I was a teenager five years ago, I'm not one now and my approach to recreational drugs is vastly different as a result. So five years is too long to be current.

 

[boulderjohn]

No it doesn't. What is a behavioural health disorder? What is "Behavioral health, mental or psychological problems"? Is it only referring to the things in the bracket?

That's how I would interpret it: "(panic attack, fear of closed or open spaces)" If it is not in those defined terms, don't worry about it.

And you also ignored the BSAC form "Have you any history of mental or psychological illness of any kind, fear of small spaces, crowds or panic attacks? "

It is almost the same as the RSTC, and it does define the terms. You said

And difficult to answer as it doesn't properly define what it means by this.

It does define what it means, and I would restrict my responses to the definitions provided.

How are all mental disorders relevant to diving? Some aren't in any way. I have a disorder, Asperger's, listed in the DSV-IV, but I certainly do not consider it a mental or psychological illness (I consider it a strength). So what do I put down?

Those items were not mentioned in their definitions of the terms, definitions you said they did not provide. You don't think they belong. They don't mention them. What's the problem?

.The form is stupid and vague and often it won't actually protect the operator even if someone lies as in Australia you can't wave away liability completely. Just another bit of bureucratic nonsense due to a very litigious society, that I do not want to encourage.

There does seem to be a sense among those who use the form that it does help with liability issues. You can't waive away liability completely in America completely, either.

Look at it from the other side. I recently had a potential student who was turned away by this form. She was pregnant. She had no idea that this might be an issue. Perhaps you would prefer that she not be informed and spend the rest of her life with the tragic results of microbubbles on a developing fetus.

No. I was a teenager five years ago, I'm not one now and my approach to recreational drugs is vastly different as a result. So five years is too long to be current.

Different people would interpret that differently.

 

[Sas]

The mental illness questions are not clear especially due to the use of the word 'or'. Those words are important if something goes wrong.

I've also said that in my country a dive medical with a diving doctor is compulsory and that people should always be honest there and the form to start that is much more detailed than the agency ones. If you are using the form to determine a student's fitness to dive like in your pregnancy example, well that's pretty poor form and actually a bit scary. People should have to under go dive medicals with a diving doctor, before they start diving, rather than just go by a form their non-medical trained instructor gives them.

 

[Tigerman]

Luckilly I dont have any medical issues.
However, if I did and I had a signed form from my doc and a dive op said I had to go to their doc, because they dont accept my docs signature, Id really reconsider if I should just find another op..