Those health forms -- Truth or Consequences?

[Papa_Bear]

It is given to all passengers to fill out for the "Boats records"! I also just did my second one for Buddy Dive in Bonaire! They are standard for most boats and dive operators! Whether they are using them right is irrelevant if they won't let you dive unless the paper work is done!

 

[Tigerman]

It is given to all passengers to fill out for the "Boats records"! I also just did my second one for Buddy Dive in Bonaire! They are standard for most boats and dive operators! Whether they are using them right is irrelevant if they won't let you dive unless the paper work is done!

Does most boats and dive ops also say "we dont care if your regular doc think youre fine to dive, we want money for our local docs" which was a premise in the op? (in a bit more political words)

 

[Papa_Bear]

They are self filling forms to release the operator from liability! They only have YOUR signature on them and do not require a second signature except some times a witness! As far as Australia I have been told as long as it is a US medical Doctor it is acceptable? I would think if they weren't honored in other countries there might be a treaty problem?

 

[Tigerman]

They are self filling forms to release the operator from liability! They only have YOUR signature on them and do not require a second signature except some times a witness! As far as Australia I have been told as long as it is a US medical Doctor it is acceptable? I would think if they weren't honored in other countries there might be a treaty problem?

Well, the premise was (from the original post anyways) "If you check yes you require a medical and we will ignore any such you have from your regular doc"?
Glad to hear you havent seen that yet. I havent either and if I did come across it, I think Id just go to a different op tbh..

 

[Sas]

Just for interest's sake, here is the Australian Medical form http://www.divemedicals.com.au/divemed.pdf. As you can see it is a great deal more detailed than the PADI/SSI/RTC/etc forms discussed here and also is done with an actual diving doctor.

So I have one of those that has been approved. I will continue to put NO to everything on any disclaimer form given to me by a dive operator and keep my dive medical handy. I don't think instructors or dive ops should be using their own forms to determine dive fitness at all, as they are not as thorough and have no medical knowledge (in general) and would stop some fit people from diving and allow other people to dive who are not fit. There is also the issue of confidentiality - whilst I am not concerned at all about any medical condition I have being public, many others are, for good reason and I am yet to see a diving operator/agency/whatever really address the issue of privacy. The shop I did my training with kept my dive medical on file where anyone could access it (I needed to get it back after I quit their club for my next club and some random staff member could produce and copy it for me).

 

[k ellis]

Just for interest's sake, here is the Australian Medical form http://www.divemedicals.com.au/divemed.pdf. As you can see it is a great deal more detailed than the PADI/SSI/RTC/etc forms discussed here and also is done with an actual diving doctor.

So I have one of those that has been approved. I will continue to put NO to everything on any disclaimer form given to me by a dive operator and keep my dive medical handy. I don't think instructors or dive ops should be using their own forms to determine dive fitness at all, as they are not as thorough and have no medical knowledge (in general) and would stop some fit people from diving and allow other people to dive who are not fit. There is also the issue of confidentiality - whilst I am not concerned at all about any medical condition I have being public, many others are, for good reason and I am yet to see a diving operator/agency/whatever really address the issue of privacy. The shop I did my training with kept my dive medical on file where anyone could access it (I needed to get it back after I quit their club for my next club and some random staff member could produce and copy it for me).

Well this goes back to my earlier post where I felt Hippa played a part. I do agree some things are personal to people and should not be discussed. However the forms are not binding all they are is questions that the op wants to cover himself.

While I am not condoning or denounceing the proceedure but I am in a very high risk field in which my life was in immediate danger and I have first hand witnessed how people can go from fine to clinging to life in a heart beat. At that point people cant walk up to you and say "Hey since you may die can I go ahead and have you fill this out?"

The simple truth is thanks to Hippa Laws in america there are really no way for a dive operator to verify if you have a medical history other then what you tell them on the paper so false information would be easy to get away with.

Now I dont have any medical conditions but i honestly feel the pain of the vacationer. If you were to plan for months and even years for the dream vacation and your doctor has already given you the go ahead since you see him periodicly the last thing you want to do is have to "Schedule"an appointment and pay 100s of dollars possibly just to do a 2 tank dive.

Id say this is the best way to do it. Get your doc to sign a release and keep a copy with you at all times. If you go to a dive operator that wants to boost his local economy by only accepting a local doctor then go find one who wants your buisness instead.

 

[BioLogic]

Id say this is the best way to do it. Get your doc to sign a release and keep a copy with you at all times. If you go to a dive operator that wants to boost his local economy by only accepting a local doctor then go find one who wants your buisness instead.[/QUOTE]

This is how I'd do it *now*. Now that I know it's a problem. My first trip, I'd had my doc sign the form for my OW training and left it at my dive shop. Hey, I had an OW card, doesn't that mean I must be medically cleared too? And the clearance was less than a year old.

So we show up to the charter the first day, and they hand out the forms. Someone tries to pass across a signed doc's release, and the dive operator ignores it and keeps emphasizing, "If you say yes to anything on this form, you have to be cleared by a local doc before you can dive." He watches the person shut up, check NO to everything, and takes the release without further comment. I check NO to everything, pass it over, and we go dive. I have no guilt over that. It was never a good faith deal and it was never any of their business since my doc had cleared me. They had their signed waiver for liability.

I could have just walked out, and spent the first morning of my dream vacation searching for a new op ... except I couldn't afford it due to the 'no returns' policy of the shop with the forms. I didn't. The forms I signed had the exact purpose they were intended for, and protection of my health was not one of them.

 

[Kingpatzer]

The forms I signed had the exact purpose they were intended for, and protection of my health was not one of them.

+1

And that sums it up.

 

[AquaExplorer]

Situational ethics; gotta love it.

"The truth shall set you free...if it's not too much of a bother."

Actually situational ethics are part of the real world, and I would question anyone that is 100% black and white about all things, all the time.

 

[sdiver68]

Actually, if you'd like to read the law itself you'll see that you're not...

The Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 (HIPAA)

"The Privacy and Security Rules of the act apply only to covered entities.

The covered entities are health plans, health-care clearinghouses, and health-care providers who transmit health information in electronic form in connection with certain transactions.

If an entity is not a covered entity, it does not have to comply with the Privacy Rule."

Perhaps but consider:

1) The business may have a contractual obligation to be HIPAA compliant, perhaps to receive funding in the case of a shelter or in conjunction with any other revenue stream.
2) The business might be considered a business partner of a covered entity which means they also need to be HIPAA compliant.
3) Although the generic term (which is abused) to cover health privacy concerns is HIPAA, many others may come into play including State laws.

I'm NOT saying dive shops are definitely covered by these rules or that HIPAA has anything to do with these medical questionnaires , rather that it's not nearly as cut-and-dry for all entities as the above quoted law might make it seem.