Those health forms -- Truth or Consequences?

[RJP]

Actually Im right...

Actually, if you'd like to read the law itself you'll see that you're not...

The Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 (HIPAA)

"The Privacy and Security Rules of the act apply only to covered entities.

The covered entities are health plans, health-care clearinghouses, and health-care providers who transmit health information in electronic form in connection with certain transactions.

If an entity is not a covered entity, it does not have to comply with the Privacy Rule."

As you point out, the law applies to hospitals because they are healthcare providers.

Pretty sure that dive shops/instructors/boats don't fall into the definition of "covered entities" for purposes of HIPAA.

And again, the main point is that HIPAA applies to someone else DISCLOSING your PHI without your permission. It does not apply to anyone ASKING FOR IT or even DEMANDING IT. And it certainly doesn't apply to YOU disclosing it.

 

[adurso]

Actually Im right but just so you know its illegal to attempt to gain ones medical records period with out consent. Now would they get charged with this in this instance? Probably not since it is a request but none the less once someone is told that they do not want to discuss medical information anything after that point would be considered illegal just the same as sexual harassment. So yes I am right sorry

The law you seem to be citing is abbreviated HIPAA (The Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 )

The rules apply to covered entities, not individuals. Violations are investigated by the Department of Health and Human Services Office of Civil Rights. The investigations result in compliance with the rules.

None of which has anything whatsoever to do with sexual harassment.

EDIT: RJP beat me to it...

 

[k ellis]

Actually, if you'd like to read the law itself you'll see that you're not...

The Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 (HIPAA)

"The Privacy and Security Rules of the act apply only to covered entities.

The covered entities are health plans, health-care clearinghouses, and health-care providers who transmit health information in electronic form in connection with certain transactions.

If an entity is not a covered entity, it does not have to comply with the Privacy Rule."

As you point out, the law applies to hospitals because they are healthcare providers.

Pretty sure that dive shops/instructors/boats don't fall into the definition of "covered entities" for purposes of HIPAA.

And again, the main point is that HIPAA applies to someone else DISCLOSING your PHI without your permission. It does not apply to anyone ASKING FOR IT or even DEMANDING IT. And it certainly doesn't apply to YOU disclosing it.

Ok being that I am the man I am I rightfully admit I stand corrected. I had to go and reread it and it is based on healthcare providers so I rightfully apologize as no misinfomation was intended.

I do stand on the fact though of its 2 people reaching a mutual agreement. If either party does not want to meet the other parties request then either side has the right to walk away or deny the service

 

[BioLogic]

The list on the front is necessary so that a potential student has an idea of what will require medical clearance and what will not require medical clearance. It would be possible to just have a list and leave it up to the student to read the list, but it has been determined that people rarely do that, and so courts will want to see clear evidence that the student's release statement was informed.

Most of these are pretty vague, and the doctor does not need to give any specifics in the release. In another thread like this, a poster was furious that he had to reveal that he was taking viagra. There is absolutely nothing in that form that requires that information. All that has to be done is say that you are taking prescription medicine (which could be anything) and get the doctor to sign.

Can you give an idea of which of the items on the list you feel are intrusive?

The release should be good for a year. There should be no reason to make a special trip if you get a new statement annually and keep it on file.

An idea of what I find intrusive, fair enough: Questions about "have you ever had" practically anything, if a doctor has already declared the issue resolved without residual complications. If people are totally honest, they're forced to pay for a special physical and delay training if they had a tonsillectomy when they were seven. Also, don't ask me if I'm on any prescription drugs; ask me if I'm on any prescription drugs that I have not specifically discussed with my doctor and been approved for diving.

The release should be good for a year. There should be no need to make a special trip. I agree. Too bad it hasn't worked that way for me. I've had mine on file and had a shop refuse training until I gave them another one. Apparently PADI can keep records on all the cards I keep but can't tell a dive shop operator that I'm medically cleared.

I've gone to a charter in Kona, HI (the company's been sold since, so I don't care to give the name of the new owner as it isn't his fault) and seen a fellow diver try to deal with the med form. The dive op person says "If you say Yes to anything on this form, you can't dive with us until we send you to a local physician for clearance." The diver tries to hand over the recent and signed clearance from the diver's regular doc. The dive op person looks the other way and repeats, "If you say Yes to anything, you can't dive until we send you to someone here for clearance." The diver gets the hint and lies Yes all over that form.

That was when I realized it wasn't about the truth. It was about liability. I've noticed that the form tells me it's all on me if I failed to reveal anything. I'm good with that. I'm going to dive safe, and that form has nothing to do with it. If I was a closet epileptic, I could lie on the form or have my cousin the accountant sign my med clearance -- I'd be diving unsafe and the form would still have nothing to do with it.

I've been diving less than two years, and have had to fill out that stupid form seven different times and have been asked for four separate medical clearances. Just. Not. Reasonable.

 

[theduckguru]

The forms are really kinda silly. If you were 100 years old and had never seen a doctor in your life you could honestly answer no to all questions.

The language of the SSI medical form is rather telling: "The medical information I have provided about my medical history is accurate to the best of my knowledge. I agree to accept responsibility for ommisions regarding my failure to disclose any existing or past medical condition."

In the end, you self certify your health prior and during every dive.

 

[boulderjohn]

An idea of what I find intrusive, fair enough: Questions about "have you ever had" practically anything, if a doctor has already declared the issue resolved without residual complications.

Please give a specific example of something you think is intrusive and would not want to reveal.

If people are totally honest, they're forced to pay for a special physical and delay training if they had a tonsillectomy when they were seven.

Sorry. I can't find that on the form. Can you give me the exact wording where that is called for?

Also, don't ask me if I'm on any prescription drugs; ask me if I'm on any prescription drugs that I have not specifically discussed with my doctor and been approved for diving.

You don't have to reveal what prescription drugs you are taking.

I've gone to a charter in Kona, HI (the company's been sold since, so I don't care to give the name of the new owner as it isn't his fault) and seen a fellow diver try to deal with the med form. The dive op person says "If you say Yes to anything on this form, you can't dive with us until we send you to a local physician for clearance." The diver tries to hand over the recent and signed clearance from the diver's regular doc. The dive op person looks the other way and repeats, "If you say Yes to anything, you can't dive until we send you to someone here for clearance." The diver gets the hint and lies Yes all over that form.

I have dived with three different operators in Kona and never been asked for a medical release.

I've been diving less than two years, and have had to fill out that stupid form seven different times and have been asked for four separate medical clearances. Just. Not. Reasonable.

You seem to be very unlucky. I have never been asked to fill out the form for anything other than instruction, and I have been to considerably more places than you.

 

[RJP]

I have never been asked to fill out the form for anything other than instruction, and I have been to considerably more places than you.

I've been asked to submit a medical clearance form for at least one live-aboard trip, possibly two.

 

[Sas]

Please give a specific example of something you think is intrusive and would not want to reveal.

Personally, I have seen questions about mental or psychological illnesses, that I think are intrusive. And difficult to answer as it doesn't properly define what it means by this. Anything on the DSM-IV?? I would argue with some of those as being categorised as 'illnesses'.

Also while it doesn't apply to me the question about past alcohol or drug abuse is also something that I would consider very intrusive and irrelevant. Current alcohol and drug abuse, sure, but in the past??

 

[RJP]

Also while it doesn't apply to me the question about past alcohol or drug abuse is also something that I would consider very intrusive and irrelevant. Current alcohol and drug abuse, sure, but in the past??

Wouldn't "current" be limited to actually drinking or doing drugs while filling the form out? By definition everything else is "past."



Plus, there's the whole issue of what constitutes "abuse" of drugs. Personally, I always treated them with the utmost care!

 

[Papa_Bear]

In the land down under if your 50 you have to have a medical release signed by your doctor to dive a live a board! Thank GD one of my buddies is one So much for personal freedom!