Those health forms -- Truth or Consequences?

[Sas]

Some examples: An intern at a place I used to work lied about his epilepsy. He had a fit on his Rescue Course and although it happened at the surface (thank goodness), he was medically classed as near drowning. Another guy (actually 3 separate cases) lied about their asthma and after being witness having an attack or taking their inhaler after stepping onto the dive boat were sent packing, not because of their asthma, but because they lied about it. Not long ago it took me 7 minutes to surface an AOW student from a safety stop because she didn't admit to having a deformed eustachian tube; she was in agony.

Please, those examples are in no way analogous to the few people here who've said they put No to everything but ALREADY HAVE CLEARANCE FROM THEIR DOCTOR. You see the difference? I have clearance from a *diving* doctor, no less.

Yeah, what a "bother" the truth is.

Yea actually the truth is frequently bothersome, not just in diving. I don't always tell the truth, especially if it is going to cause more harm than good.

I have had a number of instructors actually tell me that none of my conditions are relevant and said not to put Yes down. I am quite sure (well I know, from speaking to a few people) that many others do this as well but because of the litigious nature that exists in the US, and the US-centric nature of this board, one gets a lot of flack here if you admit to this.

 

[boulderjohn]

A medical sign off is fine for a class, once the person is certified than it's just BS for a charter operation to ask for one.

Never had it happen myself. Does it happen to you often?

 

[RJP]

I have had a number of instructors actually tell me that none of my conditions are relevant and said not to put Yes down.

wrong + wrong = right

 

[Sas]

wrong + wrong = right

If I am doing the course with them, they mustn't think it 'wrong'. What is wrong to you, is not necessarily wrong to others, you realise? You can shake your little head at me all you want, but it's not going to change my mind.

 

[Peter Guy]

Captain wrote as a somewhat irrational response

Peter Guy, does that driver coming at you first discuss with you if he has any medical conditions that could result in a head on collision.

Captain, no, but I also have not agreed to drive WITH the impaired driver who is about to hit me.

In the particular case, I am relying on my buddy to be up front and honest about his abilities as we go 1200+ feet from "The Big Air Tank." There is no comparable relationship between me as a driver on the road and every other driver.

Want to try again why your buddy shouldn't be honest with you about potential problems?

 

[Kingpatzer]

I'm somewhat amazed and slightly disappointed by some of the comments here which amount to: "I know I am fine so I lie on the medical"....

The RSTC (or whichever form you are required to complete) is there to protect both the diver and the instructor and organisation. Some of the medical requirements are very serious - an epileptic fit or an asthma attack underwater would most likely result in a fatality. That is not to say that people who have suffered from these conditions cannot dive, and there are guidelines for physicians on how to diagnose potential problems that might be associated with diving.

. . .

If you have a medical condition and you are concerned about the fitness to dive medical, do everybody concerned a favour and get clearance from a physician, preferably trained in hyperbaric medicine. the Diver's Alert Network (DAN) can assist with locating one. I can't speak for other agencies but by PADI standards it is valid for a year, unless the condition changes.

You seem to have missed the nuance of a few of these answers. People aren't failing to get clearance. They are simply choosing not to discuss the issue with dive operators.

Far too many dive operators are not interested in simply saying "oh, ok you have clearance, thanks for being honest, let's go dive." Instead they say "Oh, you said yes, we aren't interested in what your doctor has to say." Even though the person's physician is going to be the person who has the necessary health history to actually make a fully informed recommendation, the dive operator will require a local doc. Creating unnecessary inconvenience and cost. Or worse they'll just say "Um, we choose to not let you dive with us."

If my neurologist, in consultation with DAN, has told me that I can dive, I'll believe him. And it's none of the dive operator's business what medical condition I have.

 

[Kingpatzer]

By not telling me he denied me the option of refusing to dive with him if I thought the risk was too great. I don't believe that is his right to deny me the chance to make my own risk assessment.

And there's why it is better to simply not disclose this stuff to people who aren't in a position to make an appropriate medical decision.

People who do not have a full and complete basis for making a risk evaluation on medical criteria none-the-less feel they are in a position to do so and worse will act out of fear and ignorance in a way that ultimately is punitive to the person who is honest. People are so intent on covering their own rear-ends they don't actually care about the medical issues and recommendations.

 

[RJP]

What is wrong to you, is not necessarily wrong to others, you realise?

It's actually pretty cut and dried here. The form is the AGENCY'S form, not the instructor's. The fact that he's complicit in your decision to knowingly lie on the form and then sign your name on the line where you indicate that you filled the form out truthfully, doesn't make it "not necessarily wrong" to do so.

Neither you nor the instructor CARE about you lying on the form, but that doesn't mean it's not WRONG to do so.

You can shake your little head at me all you want, but it's not going to change my mind.

Don't worry, I never doubted that for a second.

 

[lakeviewfarm]

I have a CDL drive a tour bus loaded with people. I get a medical every year for that. I see my Dr every year I take two to three Dr. exams every year i know more about my medical condition than a large % of people out there diving put I go to Rhodes and because of a yes I have to see there Dr. lucky they had one and then he all most didn't clear me. I have no plans to kill myself much less any one else. I feel very much like saying no. I haven't yet but I am considering it

 

[Sas]

It's actually pretty cut and dried here. The form is the AGENCY'S form, not the instructor's. The fact that he's complicit in your decision to knowingly lie on the form and then sign your name on the line where you indicate that you filled the form out truthfully, doesn't make it "not necessarily wrong" to do so.

Neither you nor the instructor CARE about you lying on the form, but that doesn't mean it's not WRONG to do so.

Firstly, don't assume gender. A pet peeve of mine.

Secondly, you also assumed it was always an agency form. Some are, some aren't.

Thirdly, I have clearance to dive from a diving doctor, which is required by Australian Standards. Anyone who I do a course with or a boat ride with if they see I am certified in Australia will know this already. I think the disclaimer form is unnecessary as a result. I do not do things that I think are stupid even if it includes me lying.

I think saying 'Yes' to something on the medical form is a stupid thing to do for me, because I have clearance to dive and I do not want to be stopped from diving because a charter that has no idea of my medical history or any medical expertise says so.

All those forms are doing, is releasing my liability to the charter/instructor/agency, so it doesn't matter whether I sign it honestly or not as I am still releasing them of liability. The only time to be honest in my opinion is when seeing my diving doctor or to a charter if you have a current medical condition where if you got into trouble that knowledge would be important for medical staff called to help you (i.e. asthmatic, diabetes, etc).

A self-declaration medical form is a very poor and stupid way for a charter/instructor/agency to determine fitness to dive.