Those health forms -- Truth or Consequences?

[Sas]

Hmm. When I was diving in NZ last year the dive op required a medical from me, signed by a doctor. I can't remember if this was for regular diving or for my Rescue course, but in the states a doctor's signature isn't required for either.

When I dived last year I didn't have to do this at all but then I wasn't doing a course. In fact none of the adventure activities I did in NZ required a disclaimer of any sort. Was quite refreshing

 

[Sas]

lie –noun

1. a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood.
2. something intended or serving to convey a false impression; .
3. an inaccurate or false statement.

What's your point? Lying isn't necessarily bad. Trust me, as someone who finds it very difficult to lie (not because I don't want to, just because I cannot really feign emotion and therefore am never convincing when I lie), I really appreciate how lying makes society work and how much trouble I have because I cannot do so.

 

[Mike Boswell]

rationalize  [rash-uh-nl-ahyz, rash-nl-ahyz] –verb

1. to ascribe (one's acts, opinions, etc.) to causes that superficially seem reasonable and valid but that actually are unrelated to the true, possibly unconscious and often less creditable or agreeable causes.

 

[Sas]

rationalize  [rash-uh-nl-ahyz, rash-nl-ahyz] –verb

1. to ascribe (one's acts, opinions, etc.) to causes that superficially seem reasonable and valid but that actually are unrelated to the true, possibly unconscious and often less creditable or agreeable causes.

You mean like picking up a dictionary and quoting definitions to rationalise your own ideas?

Instead of doing something so boring, could you actually discuss with me the issue of lying. Do you think all lies are immoral? If not, what is your criteria for deciding if something is ok to lie about?

But while we're at it: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/rationalise

See definitions 2-4, 7 and 8. Cherry picking is a poor way to argue your case.

 

[Mike Boswell]

You mean like picking up a dictionary and quoting definitions to rationalise your own ideas?

Instead of doing something so boring, could you actually discuss with me the issue of lying. Do you think all lies are immoral? If not, what is your criteria for deciding if something is ok to lie about?

But while we're at it: Rationalise | Definition of Rationalise at Dictionary.com:

See definitions 2-4, 7 and 8. Cherry picking is a poor way to argue your case.

Saspotato, yes, I believe filling out the health form with incorrect responses is lying, and that lying is wrong. I have gone to great lengths to explain my reasoning and there isn't much more I can add.

 

[Sas]

Saspotato, yes, I believe filling out the health form with incorrect responses is lying, and that lying is wrong. I have gone to great lengths to explain my reasoning and there isn't much more I can add.

So you never ever lie? I think that is wrong myself.

 

[Kingpatzer]

Saspotato, yes, I believe filling out the health form with incorrect responses is lying, and that lying is wrong. I have gone to great lengths to explain my reasoning and there isn't much more I can add.

If I have a health clearance from my doctor, how is informing the dive operation that I am medically cleared to dive without providing them specifics they have no ability to evaluate anyway a problem?

 

[Mike Boswell]

So you never ever lie? I think that is wrong myself.

Why do you think not lying is wrong?

 

[Mike Boswell]

If I have a health clearance from my doctor, how is informing the dive operation that I am medically cleared to dive without providing them specifics they have no ability to evaluate anyway a problem?

You mean - refuse to fill in the form, and provide a doctor's clearance instead? I doubt that this will be accepted, but you are free to try it.

However, the issue is lying on the form and then signing the statement saying you told the truth. That would be wrong.

 

[boulderjohn]

If I have a health clearance from my doctor, how is informing the dive operation that I am medically cleared to dive without providing them specifics they have no ability to evaluate anyway a problem?

I mentioned this earlier.

You see this in a lot of places where there are potential legal issues. When you sign a rental car form, for example, you have to initial several places, such as when you decline insurance coverage. I have just completed a ton of legal papers in which I had to initial place after place after place when logic would tell you that my signature at the end would do just as well. When I had Lasik surgery, I not only had to sign next to several places telling me that the surgery would not correct the need for reading glasses, I actually had to copy by hand a paragraph telling me so and then sign it.

Apparently even if you sign such a form, people can successfully argue in court that they did not see or understand an individual part of that form. The initials (or in this case, the yes or no statement) for each item makes it more difficult for someone to argue that. You are demonstrating that you were fully informed of all risks before signing that statement.